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Go count the Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Honda ads on MO, and get back to me.
'03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...
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Re: Inconsistencies between Part 1 and Part 2?
Questions don't get any easier to answer. Part 1 was a racetrack comparison with some assorted comments on comfort. It was written BEFORE we had a chance to spend any serious time on the streets. The seat on the Kawasaki IS comfortable, my ass never got sore or numb. The problem is with the angle of the seat causing you to slide foreward into the tank, creating discomfort in a part of your body that doesn't even come into contact with the seat. The seat itself is fine and the simple addition of a grippier seat cover might even solve the sliding problem.
As for the R6 front feeling like it wanted to tuck, on the stock Dunlop D208s, the feeling was there on the racetrack, but on the street, the lean angle and cornering forces are such that it doesn't surface. Since the feeling of impending tuck is missing on the street, it isn't something that we would hold against the bike (tires) on the street portion of the test.
Questions don't get any easier to answer. Part 1 was a racetrack comparison with some assorted comments on comfort. It was written BEFORE we had a chance to spend any serious time on the streets. The seat on the Kawasaki IS comfortable, my ass never got sore or numb. The problem is with the angle of the seat causing you to slide foreward into the tank, creating discomfort in a part of your body that doesn't even come into contact with the seat. The seat itself is fine and the simple addition of a grippier seat cover might even solve the sliding problem.
As for the R6 front feeling like it wanted to tuck, on the stock Dunlop D208s, the feeling was there on the racetrack, but on the street, the lean angle and cornering forces are such that it doesn't surface. Since the feeling of impending tuck is missing on the street, it isn't something that we would hold against the bike (tires) on the street portion of the test.
First off, I was speaking about mags in general, not MO.
I never implied that MO exchanges favorable reviews for money. In fact, I've always maintained that the small annual fee of just over $10 would help to prevent such carryon, and I'll gladly be paying it again next month because of this. However, I know from experience that the "money for reviews" game is played year-round in the mag industry, so I stand by my words.
In fact, MO, or at least some of it's writers, seem to agree with me. As your own staff writer put it in the Open Class Shootout: 2001, "And, while we're not saying another magazine didn't have their reasons (ad-choo! Oh, excuse us...)"
So lighten up, cut back on the joe, and give me a break, Sean.
Dardas.
I never implied that MO exchanges favorable reviews for money. In fact, I've always maintained that the small annual fee of just over $10 would help to prevent such carryon, and I'll gladly be paying it again next month because of this. However, I know from experience that the "money for reviews" game is played year-round in the mag industry, so I stand by my words.
In fact, MO, or at least some of it's writers, seem to agree with me. As your own staff writer put it in the Open Class Shootout: 2001, "And, while we're not saying another magazine didn't have their reasons (ad-choo! Oh, excuse us...)"
So lighten up, cut back on the joe, and give me a break, Sean.
Dardas.
Buell, however, has a LOT of rotational inertia
The Buell has a built in "anti-head-shake" in that the wheel has much more rotational inertia (gyroscope behavior) than any other sportbike out there. By having so much weight (the brake disk) spread out to the edge of the wheel, this naturally dampens the steering rate as it requires more force to deflect the wheel.
And the faster the bike goes, the more force is required.
Personally, thats probably a good idea for a streetbike, but racebikes have been going the other way (some superbikes in the UK use 4 disk setups specifically to reduce rotational inertia by allowing the brakes to be 4 very small disks.)
The Buell has a built in "anti-head-shake" in that the wheel has much more rotational inertia (gyroscope behavior) than any other sportbike out there. By having so much weight (the brake disk) spread out to the edge of the wheel, this naturally dampens the steering rate as it requires more force to deflect the wheel.
And the faster the bike goes, the more force is required.
Personally, thats probably a good idea for a streetbike, but racebikes have been going the other way (some superbikes in the UK use 4 disk setups specifically to reduce rotational inertia by allowing the brakes to be 4 very small disks.)
I never have bought a bike I didn't ride first, so I pretty much formed my own opinions. I read road tests for entertainment, as you suggest, but also to help me narrow down those bikes that I might be interested in. For example, I had never really considered the Triumph Speed 4 until reading the MO test. Probably would still go for a Speed Triple instead, but I would at least try get a test ride on the Speed 4.
You are certainly right about the Brit Bike tests -- they are entertaining but have little relevance to real riding in MY universe.
You are certainly right about the Brit Bike tests -- they are entertaining but have little relevance to real riding in MY universe.
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9 Posts
Re: Too sharp for their own good?
A tank-slapper is certainly the result of either a front-end slide OR the front coming down from anything (bump, wheelie) even slightly crossed-up. The cause is that the contact patch is actually behind the line that the forks are attached to the frame on. This means that any turn from straight actually moves the contact patch SLIGHTLY forward. The slapper continues because as the handlebars whip back so the contact patch is far enough back but then the inertia on the bars carries the contact patch SLIGHTLY forward on the other side - then that just keeps on going until luck has it's way and the forces keeping the contact patch back overcome the inertial forces moving the bars from side to side.
Since my last physics class occured in a drunken haze as I switched from Mechanical Engineering to English as a major in College - this is the best I can do - but it must be incredibly hard to engineer out a tankslapper w/out just fitting a damper.
My VFR was prone to tankslappers and I took the time to figure it out as best I could - and that's what I came up with
A tank-slapper is certainly the result of either a front-end slide OR the front coming down from anything (bump, wheelie) even slightly crossed-up. The cause is that the contact patch is actually behind the line that the forks are attached to the frame on. This means that any turn from straight actually moves the contact patch SLIGHTLY forward. The slapper continues because as the handlebars whip back so the contact patch is far enough back but then the inertia on the bars carries the contact patch SLIGHTLY forward on the other side - then that just keeps on going until luck has it's way and the forces keeping the contact patch back overcome the inertial forces moving the bars from side to side.
Since my last physics class occured in a drunken haze as I switched from Mechanical Engineering to English as a major in College - this is the best I can do - but it must be incredibly hard to engineer out a tankslapper w/out just fitting a damper.
My VFR was prone to tankslappers and I took the time to figure it out as best I could - and that's what I came up with
Let's wait and see what they pick before we start smugly criticizing them for what they haven't yet done and may never do.
According to that logic, if they pick the Honda it's because of bias...so I guess if they pick the R6 it's because of a different bias? or more Yamaha ads that month? Sheesh...
According to that logic, if they pick the Honda it's because of bias...so I guess if they pick the R6 it's because of a different bias? or more Yamaha ads that month? Sheesh...
Invisible Headlight on the R6
Sean, JohnnyB did either of you notice the above? Ive barely seen a couple on the street as the dual one side only projector beams can almost not be seen during the day. How does those lights work in the evening? They seem great for stealth riding during the day...
Sean, JohnnyB did either of you notice the above? Ive barely seen a couple on the street as the dual one side only projector beams can almost not be seen during the day. How does those lights work in the evening? They seem great for stealth riding during the day...
These bikes all look and sound like they are great bikes. The problem is, I am 40 years old, have bad knees, have never touched a knee down on the pavement, and unfortunately do not think I ever will. My 1999 Honda F4 seems to be getting better all the time(I believe better than a F4I based on their crappy seat). I know the manufacturers have to keep selling new bikes, but how many of us really ride our bikes anywhere other than the street?
I have to give it to Yamaha though, it does seem to be the most street friendly of the new 600's, and still kicks butt on the track.
I have to give it to Yamaha though, it does seem to be the most street friendly of the new 600's, and still kicks butt on the track.
Re: '03 600s, Other choices
Shaun
You may be surprised. I have the new R6 and the bike is quite comfy. Let me know how your ride goes.
However, I recently installed genmar bar risers on it and it is even better now. They raise the bars about 3/4" of an inch and look stock. The rise is Just noticable but it doesn't seem to affect the handling at all, though I haven't had time to ride it in the twisties yet.
Jim
Shaun
You may be surprised. I have the new R6 and the bike is quite comfy. Let me know how your ride goes.
However, I recently installed genmar bar risers on it and it is even better now. They raise the bars about 3/4" of an inch and look stock. The rise is Just noticable but it doesn't seem to affect the handling at all, though I haven't had time to ride it in the twisties yet.
Jim
Re: '03 600s, Other choices
Jimmm, that's great to know, thanks.
I was considering the CBR600F4i but recently test-rode one and found that the bars were buzzy as heck at highway speeds, so that's out.
I'm also waiting to test the new SVS650 (still not here yet) but after hearing about the relative comfort of the R6, I'm going to test that as well.
I'm looking for something for canyon carving primarily, but also would like to be able to go for overnighters and such without needing to see a chiropracter afterward...
Jimmm, that's great to know, thanks.
I was considering the CBR600F4i but recently test-rode one and found that the bars were buzzy as heck at highway speeds, so that's out.
I'm also waiting to test the new SVS650 (still not here yet) but after hearing about the relative comfort of the R6, I'm going to test that as well.
I'm looking for something for canyon carving primarily, but also would like to be able to go for overnighters and such without needing to see a chiropracter afterward...
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