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I'm going to buy either the 636r or r6 within the next month. Seems like trying to decide which girl to take out: do you want the feisty, unpredictable one that might hurt you but give you an exciting ride (636r), or the one that's you know what to expect, nice to ride, won't hurt you but just a little something missing (r6)hmmm...



Would a rear shock replacement and steering damper on the Kawasaki take care of it's handling problems or would it be like dumping money into a broad, hoping she's going to come around but never really does?



 

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Re: Buell, however, has a LOT of rotational inertia

This is not true.

Actually the Firebolts wheels are exceptionally light, even with the brakedisc. I remember a comparison with R1 wheels, if I remember correctly, the Firebolt's wheels were in the order of 3 kg. lighter (I think the pair together...).

I think the low unsprung weight together with the low centre of gravity of the bike are what makes the frontwheel behave nicely.

The modest power output probably helps too.
 

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The Toad
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Speed Triple.

Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple.

(Seruzawa salivates.......)
 

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I purchased a 2003 R6 three weeks ago and love it. Last summer I rode a brand new F4i, and my R6 is more comfortable (the handlebars on the F4i vibrated a lot at highway speed) and the R6's motor is way more powerful! It's really an awesome bike. Your test just confirmed that I made the correct purchase.
 

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JB - why the Speed 4 and not the TT600? Maybe you mentioned this allready.



It's a little less than the, "TT600 with missing bodywork". It also has a milder cam, which accounts for the lower HP on top.



I'm not complaining, it's lightyears ahead of, well, my old Triumph. It's funky and I like funky.
 

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I just wanted to add my two cents.



I have now ridden my brand new ZX-6R for a week and am in heaven, but thats from someone who doesn't have a hard time contorting to fit a bike.

I can't say anything about the suspension until I have had time to break it in and really go to town tweaking it.

But the seat sliding and possible tankslappers

are spot on, I find myself pushing back away from the tank every few minutes to let my balls breath.



Also I just looked up the Scotts steering damper online, it's $450 and I am ordering one first thing next week. I like that one because it keeps all the parts away from the sides of the bike.



So of course all these 600's are totally amazing, I just happen to have fallen in love with the ZX-6R.



-Jack
 

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Re: Buell, however, has a LOT of rotational inertia

The PHYSICAL inertia is low: The wheel has lighter spokes, which helps the suspension.

But the ROTATIONAL inertia is actually higher, alot higher. By having all the brake disk mass out at the edge, the rotational inertia (gyroscopic behavior) is very high, as this is proportional to the mass times the radius squared.

Cut the mass in half, but double the radius, and you double the rotational inertia, which is basically what Buell has done.

High rotational inertia means the wheel is harder to deflect when spinning, and contributes greatly to the Firebolt's stability. This is a GOOD thing on a streetbike, as it makes the suspension work better while making the bike more stable (slower steering).

Racebikes have been going the other way, with smaller disks so the wheels have less rotational inertia, even if it might mean a minor increase in unsprung weight (4 brake disks vs 2).
 

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The guys above have said it all...My '00 Sprint RS will roll to 36K miles next week and I've only had one problem-a leaky fuel injector covered under warrenty caused a low RPM rough running situation. It's being diferent made easy.

 

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In part 1 JB comments that Triumph did not have the latest toy for them to play with, but was willing to let MO have at it with the Speed 4 that was available despite knowing it wouldn't be the best thing for this comparo...kudos to Triumph for puttin' it out there!
 

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Re: Buell, however, has a LOT of rotational inertia

Ah, interesting point, I stand corrected ;-)

I remember my first bike, a Kawasaki 550 LTD (chopper-wannabe), which was noticibly harder to persuade to change direction as speed increased due to it's heavy cast-iron wheels (and general steering geometry). I had the impression I could really feel the gyroscopic effect of those heavy wheels. I haven't experienced it on any bike since.

It did respond well to counter-steering, probably for the same reason.

Funny how movement over 1 additional axis makes it that much more complicated and interesting.
 

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Re: Buell, however, has a LOT of rotational inertia

Trail, baby, trail. It's all about how far behind the axis you're swinging that wheel. You can have a zero-degree headtube and a lot of trail, and the bike will still won't tank slap. It'll turn quickly, but once you lose the front, it's gone, you can't turn it "in" to the ground with zero degrees and "pick" the bike "up" with it. While leaned way over, with more than zero of a head tube angle, think of the front wheel as "flopping" around out front -- like a chopper, the farther you turn the handlebars, the more the front of the wheel comes down into contact with the road, both lengthing the chassis and raising the front end relative to the new, leaned-over horizon (the latter puts more weight on the front wheel), thus, you have recourse when the front end pushes.

And, THE ABOVE IS TRUE. Buell front ends are heavy. We haven't weighed a new Firebolt one, but the GSX-R 750 front forks and dual disk brakes we used on our racebikes were some 10 pounds lighter than the stock Buell. Every piece was lighter, the wheel, the brake rotors (yes, two small rotors were lighter than one big one, think R^2), the forks, everything. Especially the axle. If anyone is dying to know, we can go downstairs and weigh just the wheel/brake/tire combos of a GSX-R Vs. a Buell front wheel.
 

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Rsheidler, you got a point about Yamaha's race record. Everyone is talking about Kawasaki's recent success, but nobody has bothered to mention that Team Yamaha is opening up a huge lead in points in the supersport class on the R6. The R6 looked especially impressive at Fontana might I add, Dominating with 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th place finishes....
 

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I got mine two weeks ago also and absolutely love it. I spent the first week getting the suspension tweaked right and now it's awesome!!!! Interestingly I have had no problems with the seat or tankslapping. I had a 2002 zx6r and the front end of the new one is definitely quicker and more alive but I haven't had any head shake. Maybe I just have been lucky so far. Your right though, the scotts damper is the best one.
 

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If you don't mind, what exactly do you mean when you say, "getting the suspension tweaked". Is this something you did yourself or had a mechanic do for you? Don't want to get personal here, but, are your privates getting smashed against the tank like I've heard others complain? Maybe, the nut crunch has something to do with the size of the rider involved.
 

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well I don't want to give the impression that I'm under sized in that region but, no I haven't had that problem. I think it's because my arms are on the longer side and I can sit back on the seat and still comfortably reach the bars. As far as tweaking the suspension, there are standard ways of setting up suspension based on weight and riding style. you can log onto sportbike.com and go to there suspension set up section. This is a good start to use if your not familiar with setting sag, compression and rebound. There suggestions are just that and you will have to fine toon it for yourself. No one can set your suspension just right for you except you. If you don't know anything about it use sportbike.com's sugg. and then make small adjustments in one place at a time till it works and feels right for you.
 
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