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'03 Best of the Best Feedback

123392 Views 129 Replies 39 Participants Last post by  OConnor
two words: matt mladin.
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I normally stay out of flame-fests, but your argument is so full of holes and completely self-contradicting that I'm biting at this one.

First you suggest we go look at AMA times between "1000pros" and "600pros" to prove the superiority of 1000's. A few lines later, you downplay the significance of a smaller "highly modified" bike beating a larger "highly modified" bike... So what was your point with respect to comparing the times of the 1000s and the 600s again? I mean, talk about an insignificant comparison.

Wait, there's more...

The above-referenced 1000 to 600 comparison you suggest is on the most highly modified (save formula extreme, but I'll get to that in a minute) bikes there are, namely the superbikes and the supersports. Whereas the four (at least?) times the 636 has beaten the 750's it's been in superstock, a class with very few modifications allowed, suggesting that with respect to the bikes you and I can acquire, the 636 has a really good shot at being the faster bike for you and I when it comes to riding in the streets and canyons because it's cornering speed, not straightaway speed that matters in those situations.

Lets see, what else...

Oh yeah. The Formula Extreme bikes. Big bikes with big displacement and pretty much unlimited modifications, except they're slower than the superbikes. Say what you want about factory support and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that the formula extreme bikes make tons of power, can't put it to the ground, and handle like dump trucks compared to the (sometimes) smaller superbikes. More proof that size and HP aren't everything.

And finally...

While I generally agree with your "the more power you have, the more skill it takes to reign it in" statement, I would like to point out the following: A mediocre rider on a liter bike (for example) might able to as to go fast as an excellent rider on a 600 (for example) for the simple fact that he can pu$$y-foot through the corners, whack open the throttle, and make up for his poor cornering prowess on the straights. Unfortunately, the mediocre rider thinks he's setting the world on fire and fails to realize just how poor his skills are because he's using the bikes power as a crutch. Obviously there's a level of rider skill where this distinction goes away, but I'd say most everyone that's at that level has been racing for a long time and fully understands their strengths and weaknesses.

My dream choice for the track? RS250, thank you. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to out-break and out-corner some squid on a bike with 4 times the displacement, only to have him scream past me on the straight, thinking he's the bomb while I chuckle to myself inside my helmet.

Any chump can go fast in a straight line on a big bike.
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Fantastic point. I couldn't agree more. Whoops.
Re: Johnny.... you missed a great opportunity.

In what is perhaps the best, most thought out post I've seen on MO in a long time, you've managed to sum up everything I've always thought about the AMA and other cycle racing santioning body rules. The fact of the matter is, there are scientific formulas out there that are pretty accurate in predicting the potential power output of just about any engine configuration you can think of (there's even a computer program for it). Now I didn't pay much attention in that class (Energy Conversion II, sorry Dr. Gaggioli), but I know there's somebody out there who could figure this out scientifically, so that we end up with an appropriate level of competition between all of the engine configurations you've described above, and then some.
Re: Wheee! Look at me! I'm an Engineer!!!!!!

Actually guys, one of the best measures of an engines performance potential lies in the integral of the torque, which I'm sure you both know is the area under the torque curve, which for a given engine configuration with a given flow capacity generally remains constant. Of course the shape of the torque curve can be manipulated with cams, exhaust, etc., but the area beneath it (again, all things being equal) will generally remain the same.
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