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Re: Peak HP vs Torque (Ftlbs, Newton Meters) be clear what you are talking about

Your remark about Ferrari and their V12 to V10 swap is not entirely true. Sure, pumping losses became an issue and the package size was also a big factor (much more so than the pumping losses), but the limiting factor was valve train as far as power was concerned.

You see the bottom end of the V12 in theory could rev much faster than the V10 for the same TDC and BDC accelerations, but they could not use those extra revs to their advantage because the top end of the engine (the valve train) could not do those revs.... So, they bit the bullet and went for the less balanced configuration (they had big vibration problems early on in the V10's lifetime) to be able to better exploit the 3litre engine's torque that.

On another note, this whole argument will be made defunct once individual valve actuation is sufficiently developed. This will allow a MUCH broader scope for tuning, basically removing the advantages of the v-twin over the triples, fours, fives and sixes. Could you imagine a litre bike with 100Nm+ from 500 rpm all the way to 16000 rpm (or the limiting speed of the components)?

Back onto the original point, I believe that there should be some equalling restrictions put into place in the category. Remember, this is a production based category, if you want to see innovation in big chunks, follow the GP category with its prototype based rules. But if you want an exciting category where all of the manufacturers can compete equally with their production bikes, you need to apply restrictions to the obviously advantaged team, or conversely release restrictions (give slight advantages in certain areas) on the less advantaged team.
 

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Re: Wheee! Look at me! I'm an Engineer!!!!!!

Actually guys, one of the best measures of an engines performance potential lies in the integral of the torque, which I'm sure you both know is the area under the torque curve, which for a given engine configuration with a given flow capacity generally remains constant. Of course the shape of the torque curve can be manipulated with cams, exhaust, etc., but the area beneath it (again, all things being equal) will generally remain the same.
 

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Re:Correction

Did anyone stay with it? Are you kidding, towards the end of Doohan's reign, all of them were using the "Big Bang" firing system. Doohan was the only one with the skills (insanity?) to ride the knife edge that was the individual pulse NSR. After that point, the riders all told their respective amnufacturers that they preferred the "Big Bang" engines and up to the end of the 2 stroke era, all of the V4's were "Big Bangers".

The "Big Bang" was not only easier on the rear tyre, it was also quite a lot more rideable.

The reason Ducati went with the four pulse was that it made more power and so produced better lap times. That is the reason Doohan stayed with the 4 pulse NSR as long as possible.
 

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Re: Johnny.... you missed a great opportunity.

Was this supposed to be directed at KPaul? Unlimited is Formula Extreme in the AMA, superbike and supersport still should be closely production based. MotoGP is the dream machines and the reason I watch religiously.

None of this has anything to do with the street. The post that started this rant was from reepicheep and the concept of the AMA hiring a gaggle of physics professers to analize every engine config and valvetrain to create a handicaping system where any bike could race in superbike. No sanctioning body in their right minds would do that. None the less who would watch gixxer 1000's so strangled that they compete with a SV650 or a buell.

Liter bikes are whats hot, so lets race em, 750's have been dead for years. If a V-twin cant hang, then create its own series so it can, but dont strangle every other bike because of it.
 

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Re: MotoNASCAR

NASCAR is the biggest joke on the planet. "Stock Car" racing where absolutely not one stinking part is from a stock car. Maybe its that I just dont understand what the word "stock" means. V8 in a taurus, guess I missed that option at the local ford dealer. Though I do love that the SHO's engine was made by Yamaha...
 

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Re: Longride, Buzglyd, and seruzawa are you listening to 5150boy

LOL! It's a great thing to read a mag in which a regular reader is, um, regularly flamed by a half-dozen people, including an editor!

Speaking of, I need ta renew today.

Rock on, MO!
 

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Re: Johnny.... you missed a great opportunity.

and with that comment, let's segregate every bike to it's own race. run the ducati against ducatis. put the rc5 against only rc5s. it's only fair, right? who wants to see a different motorcycle race against a different configuration competitively? the answer to that question is me. and a LOT of other people. I do not want to see every bike on the track have the same style engine. no, it's not real world. but it's also not fun to watch a v-twin get eaten alive by the i-4 (and we all know that it will in stock form, we've covered all the engineering reasons in every thrice damned forum on this site. thank kpaul for that) so you need rules making the v-twin competitive.

I'm not going out to buy a ducati or rc5 in hopes of outrunning an inline four, it can't be done (except by a more skilled rider and my name is not hayden, mladin, or even sean alexander). I buy bikes I like and I like seeing those bikes racing (in non-stock form with less restricting rules) competively with other manufacturers bikes. that's what most everyone wants and that is what the superbike series' try to give us.
 

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What a coincedence, I'm blazingly fast yet ruggedly handsome myself!. I've shown "true sportbikes" my bandits tail light a time or two. Though I usually just ride my own pace, it happens to be pretty quick at times.
 

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Go back to school Sean. Intuition can only be used by sucessfully by women

Why he maybe correct is material science i.e. some limitation of the material used. Not some law of physics limiting big pistons going fast. By your logic it means that the Space Shuttle can not go faster than a Cessna 182 because the Shuttle is bigger has more mass. or more interesting by your logic the turbine blades of a 777 engine can not turn faster than a propeller blade on Cessna 210. One could argue a big piston and rod made of titatinum could go faster than one made of Harley grade iron. Given prefect materials you and him are incorrect. One can make an equally intutive argument that big pistons and rods are more substantial and structurely sound Sean go back to school pal.
 

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Re: Hard times for KPaul

You are a funny guy. Opps I had trouble on bike today cause I have to keep my rpms between 9000-14000. At 9000 in 6th gear I am going 90mph but hey you Harley boys are right.
 

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Re: Peak HP vs Torque (Ftlbs, Newton Meters) be clear what you are talking about

Wow...Your incomprehension of my response is staggering. Are you for real??? Let me help you understand then.

IF the Buell and GSXR had the EXACT same gear ratios, final drive ratio, etc., to give them the same exact leverege to the rear wheel then, yes, that Buell is gonna out-pull that GSXR, despite it's higher HP rating. Read my posts again to understand why the real-world GSXR smokes the Buell. I'll spell it out for you just to make sure: IT'S BECAUSE THE GIXXER CAN USE SHORTER GEARING!!! I've been saying all along that a liter 4-banger will out-accelerate a liter twin. You just have the reasons why wrong.
 

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Re: Peak HP vs Torque (Ftlbs, Newton Meters) be clear what you are talking about

"If you are talking about torque the 2 cylinder bikes have an advantage at low rpm levels" - Not True .....

Just look at the dyno chart for the GSXR vs the Aprilia - at no RPM (other than the IMHO insignificant dip for the GSXR at 3500) does the Aprilia make more torque OR power. Factor in the extra weight of an additional set of cams, chains and whatnot (I'm not a mechanical engineer) and the GSXR clearly beats out the Aprilia here on all counts.

Sure, you can now quote another dyno where (your favourite V-twin) produces more (power and/or torque) than (your scapegoat inline 4), but my point is that, "If you pump equal amounts of time/money/design cycles into a V-Twin and an inline-4, all other things being equal, the inline-4 will produce more power and more torque at ALL rpm.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum..... :)
 

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If I'm not mistaken there are several veteran or at least far more experienced riders that are also riding the RC211V that are behind Nicky in the standings. And don't give me the "they don't have the best bike" stuff. Every RC211V is basically a custom race bike that is the best money can buy. These aren't guys buying GSXR750's off the showroom floor and putting pipes and race tires on them, then going out and racing Matt Mladin on his (highly-modified, non-factory) factory race bike.
 
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