2002 Kawasaki ZZ-R1200
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Re: Lets keep things in perspective here
That's just it they don't sell very well. Both dealers in my town sell the four Japanese bikes. They are pretty much sold out of all the 2001 bikes except the Kawasaki's. They are even offering huge discounts on them. The zrx1200 did sell but a number of their other models don't move.
A few years it looked like Yamaha was letting the bike market go but they came back strong. I'm waiting for Kawasaki to do something now.
That's just it they don't sell very well. Both dealers in my town sell the four Japanese bikes. They are pretty much sold out of all the 2001 bikes except the Kawasaki's. They are even offering huge discounts on them. The zrx1200 did sell but a number of their other models don't move.
A few years it looked like Yamaha was letting the bike market go but they came back strong. I'm waiting for Kawasaki to do something now.
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486 Posts
re: bags + a little digression
A Commando 750 being one of the baddest bikes on the planet--now we've got Hayabusas and stuff. Wow. Wouldn't you love to get a time machine, take a stock EX500 back to 1965, and smoke every comer?
My father calls an SV650 a "large sportbike". And that's the naked version, not even the -S, which he calls a "crotch-rocket." And now motorcycle magazines won't even use the term "sportbike" for the VFR (and even the ZX-6R gets called a sport-tourer *ahem*). Things do change.
One wonders if the next big oil crisis will make everybody ride 650 twins again, or whether we'll always call 750/4's "middleweights"? Fifty years from now will we be selling 140hp "beginner bikes"?
A Commando 750 being one of the baddest bikes on the planet--now we've got Hayabusas and stuff. Wow. Wouldn't you love to get a time machine, take a stock EX500 back to 1965, and smoke every comer?
My father calls an SV650 a "large sportbike". And that's the naked version, not even the -S, which he calls a "crotch-rocket." And now motorcycle magazines won't even use the term "sportbike" for the VFR (and even the ZX-6R gets called a sport-tourer *ahem*). Things do change.
One wonders if the next big oil crisis will make everybody ride 650 twins again, or whether we'll always call 750/4's "middleweights"? Fifty years from now will we be selling 140hp "beginner bikes"?
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193 Posts
Funny thing about the Voyager XII...
I don't usually see geezers on them, which is what one might expect. Instead I see YOUNG people of all things riding those garish behemoths. Last one I saw had a couple in their early 20's who had BOTH dyed their hair metallic maroon to match the bike when they pulled off their helmets!!! I guess you're right, they do like the retro-kitschness of riding such a 2-wheeled casino as they lumber down the road playing Mel Torme tapes. It's actually a pretty nice ride for the money if that's *all* you want to do and it continues to sell because of that. Lord knows Kaw could use a new tourer but it would need to be called something else and not be a replacement for the Voyager or Connie, which both have a following *and* good aftermarket support for Japanese bikes (because of their Harley-like resistance to any significant change). Ironic that Kawi has managed to pick up on a little bit of what it is the Motor Co. really does, but has done it with a couple of models that don't resemble anything from Milwaukee.
I don't usually see geezers on them, which is what one might expect. Instead I see YOUNG people of all things riding those garish behemoths. Last one I saw had a couple in their early 20's who had BOTH dyed their hair metallic maroon to match the bike when they pulled off their helmets!!! I guess you're right, they do like the retro-kitschness of riding such a 2-wheeled casino as they lumber down the road playing Mel Torme tapes. It's actually a pretty nice ride for the money if that's *all* you want to do and it continues to sell because of that. Lord knows Kaw could use a new tourer but it would need to be called something else and not be a replacement for the Voyager or Connie, which both have a following *and* good aftermarket support for Japanese bikes (because of their Harley-like resistance to any significant change). Ironic that Kawi has managed to pick up on a little bit of what it is the Motor Co. really does, but has done it with a couple of models that don't resemble anything from Milwaukee.
Re: Glad Kawazuki is making an XX. Somebody should.
I love the Blackbird. I even tried to buy one but couldn't find a new one (or excellent condition used) unless they were asking $8500-$11,000.00. So to make a long story short, I bought a ZRX1200 and put a Zero Gravity fairing (little more coverage and still looks for the most part stock) and will consider trading it in if and when the ZZR-12 (or ZX12 or Concours) shows up in my local Kawasaki shop. By the way: Kawasaki, if your listening, put a shaft on the bike.
I love the Blackbird. I even tried to buy one but couldn't find a new one (or excellent condition used) unless they were asking $8500-$11,000.00. So to make a long story short, I bought a ZRX1200 and put a Zero Gravity fairing (little more coverage and still looks for the most part stock) and will consider trading it in if and when the ZZR-12 (or ZX12 or Concours) shows up in my local Kawasaki shop. By the way: Kawasaki, if your listening, put a shaft on the bike.
Re: Glad Kawazuki is making an XX. Somebody should.
How do you know Honda isn't making the cbr1100-xx. It was a popular bile around here. I know last year Honda didn't list the st1100 right away but time all their 2001 bikes were announced it was on thelist. Right now Honda only list the bikes that sold out in 2001 and are early release 2002's. I
expect them to sell the cbr1100 this year.
How do you know Honda isn't making the cbr1100-xx. It was a popular bile around here. I know last year Honda didn't list the st1100 right away but time all their 2001 bikes were announced it was on thelist. Right now Honda only list the bikes that sold out in 2001 and are early release 2002's. I
expect them to sell the cbr1100 this year.
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22 Posts
I LOVE the GPZ1100! Man I was sad when they stopped producing that bike. I, for one don't know if the ZX11 motor really needed more midrange. they have essentially taken a ZX11, put on a less attractive fairing, and added midrange torque. Last ZX11 I rode had so much midrange I laughed out loud every time I twisted the throttle in top gear(and the other gears were almost frightening). I think if they had concentrated on a set of first rate suspension, and not so much on making it "spacy" looking, they would have had hit the bullseye. I know there is a market for sport-tourers that have a sport bias.
I still think a VFR1000 would be my ULTIMATE bike. With VTEC AND 1000cc's, it should be able to have at least R1 level power and increased low and mids. The Japenese motor companies CAN build what we want, but they don't. I think it's the bean-counters. I say put the engineers in charge, and we'd get what we want.
I still think a VFR1000 would be my ULTIMATE bike. With VTEC AND 1000cc's, it should be able to have at least R1 level power and increased low and mids. The Japenese motor companies CAN build what we want, but they don't. I think it's the bean-counters. I say put the engineers in charge, and we'd get what we want.
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22 Posts
Re: Two good reasons for detuning
The loss of 10 hp on top won't do much for longetivity. And who ever rode a ZX11 and felt it was limp in the midrange(all you Hayabusa riders-keep quiet! -JK)? I read somewhere that the ZZR1200 had a claimed 150 HP at the crank. That's 5 more than the ZX11's claimed output. If this is the case, then It might do well.
I am still having problems with the headlights. Maybe a different color would de-emphasize them. Everything else is OK.I think I'd still rather just buy a used ZX11, and use the money I saved to make it my idead of what they are trying to do with the ZZR.
The loss of 10 hp on top won't do much for longetivity. And who ever rode a ZX11 and felt it was limp in the midrange(all you Hayabusa riders-keep quiet! -JK)? I read somewhere that the ZZR1200 had a claimed 150 HP at the crank. That's 5 more than the ZX11's claimed output. If this is the case, then It might do well.
I am still having problems with the headlights. Maybe a different color would de-emphasize them. Everything else is OK.I think I'd still rather just buy a used ZX11, and use the money I saved to make it my idead of what they are trying to do with the ZZR.
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22 Posts
Re: As long as we
I think that the EX500 Ninja is a great bike. That being said, it will take more than a new fairing to put it back in the running with the SV. When you fire up the SV, it sounds GOOD. The EX kind of percolates, but doesn't really sound like it looks. the SV with a good pipe on it sounds, dare I say: Ducati-ish. Which is for many, a WONDERFUL sound. The EX just gets louder and more lawnmower like with a pipe on it(until you make it SCREAM, that is).The EX500 motor is an enlarged 454LTD motor, Kawi's '80's beginner chopper(and forebearer to the slightly more modern 500 Vulcan). The 454's roots are in the original Ninja, the 1984 900 Ninja, It is essentially half the 908cc motor in the Ninja.
If Kawi were to replace the EX, I hope they'd look at the SV for insiration. I mean, even real racer guys like the SV. That equates to street cred. None of my motorcycling buds think of the SV as a "beginner bike", even though that's one of it's missions. Kawi would need to re-invent the Ninja in the 500-650 range to really compete, (IMHO).
I think that the EX500 Ninja is a great bike. That being said, it will take more than a new fairing to put it back in the running with the SV. When you fire up the SV, it sounds GOOD. The EX kind of percolates, but doesn't really sound like it looks. the SV with a good pipe on it sounds, dare I say: Ducati-ish. Which is for many, a WONDERFUL sound. The EX just gets louder and more lawnmower like with a pipe on it(until you make it SCREAM, that is).The EX500 motor is an enlarged 454LTD motor, Kawi's '80's beginner chopper(and forebearer to the slightly more modern 500 Vulcan). The 454's roots are in the original Ninja, the 1984 900 Ninja, It is essentially half the 908cc motor in the Ninja.
If Kawi were to replace the EX, I hope they'd look at the SV for insiration. I mean, even real racer guys like the SV. That equates to street cred. None of my motorcycling buds think of the SV as a "beginner bike", even though that's one of it's missions. Kawi would need to re-invent the Ninja in the 500-650 range to really compete, (IMHO).
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22 Posts
Re: True...
The ZX12 is not old styling or technology wise. The motor was designed to beat the Hayabusa, and would have, had Kawasaki not had to throw the fight. The frame is more advanced than ANYTHING else out there. It's what we techies might call "transparent aluminum age" technology.
The ZX9 made competitive power for years with a smaller motor, which if it were bored to 1000, would make competitive power with the GSXR100.
Distictive is not the same as nice looking, in my book. It seems that many people think a motorcycle has to look different, and that different is modern. Well, I think most modern bikes are ugly.
It all seems to start with the '96 GSXR 750, which it took a few years for me to like. The new GSXR series is much more pleasant to look at. Then here comes the TL1000R, and then the Hayabusa.I've been riding, and keeping up with motorcycles since 1980, and overall, it is Suzuki which most often has assaulted me eyes with less than inspired styling. Can anyone here remember the Maduras? I don't want to. The RF series looked good but the tail was huge. Also the Ferrari Testarosa gills went out in the late '80s. The old Katana's were Ok, except I always saw the 600 Hurricane's silouette every time I saw one. I am not impressed with the new Katanas. They look like the guy who did those oval Ford Tauruses designed them.
Yamah's major styling faux-paus are limited to the GTS1000, which many don't remember.
Honda? The Pacific Coast was nice looking, but I always thought of it as an 800cc Vtwin scooter.
It seems everybody wants to have a two headlight look. I don't like my motorcycles with faces, thank you very much.
The ZX12 is not old styling or technology wise. The motor was designed to beat the Hayabusa, and would have, had Kawasaki not had to throw the fight. The frame is more advanced than ANYTHING else out there. It's what we techies might call "transparent aluminum age" technology.
The ZX9 made competitive power for years with a smaller motor, which if it were bored to 1000, would make competitive power with the GSXR100.
Distictive is not the same as nice looking, in my book. It seems that many people think a motorcycle has to look different, and that different is modern. Well, I think most modern bikes are ugly.
It all seems to start with the '96 GSXR 750, which it took a few years for me to like. The new GSXR series is much more pleasant to look at. Then here comes the TL1000R, and then the Hayabusa.I've been riding, and keeping up with motorcycles since 1980, and overall, it is Suzuki which most often has assaulted me eyes with less than inspired styling. Can anyone here remember the Maduras? I don't want to. The RF series looked good but the tail was huge. Also the Ferrari Testarosa gills went out in the late '80s. The old Katana's were Ok, except I always saw the 600 Hurricane's silouette every time I saw one. I am not impressed with the new Katanas. They look like the guy who did those oval Ford Tauruses designed them.
Yamah's major styling faux-paus are limited to the GTS1000, which many don't remember.
Honda? The Pacific Coast was nice looking, but I always thought of it as an 800cc Vtwin scooter.
It seems everybody wants to have a two headlight look. I don't like my motorcycles with faces, thank you very much.
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486 Posts
EX revamp--why not a 650cc triple?
Here's something to think about (as long as you're knowledgable with the history of the EX). It's losing to the SV because of looks, power, and sound. What if you were to go back to the 1984 Ninja 900, and instead of cutting off two cylinders, cut off ONE. Do a little tinkering to get everything balanced again, and you suddenly have a triple of about 650cc's. It's not like Kawasaki hasn't done triples before. Slap a new, sexy fairing on that bike, and all of a sudden you've got something that's obviously for street use, is distinctive, cheap, reliable, but now SEXY. I mean, everybody raves about the sound and feel of Triumph triples for street riding--why give them a monopoly? If the SV is a "smaller, cheaper Ducati that's also good for beginners," why not make the EX a "smaller, cheaper Triumph that's also good for beginners"?
Price it at $6000 or less and buyers WILL come.
Here's something to think about (as long as you're knowledgable with the history of the EX). It's losing to the SV because of looks, power, and sound. What if you were to go back to the 1984 Ninja 900, and instead of cutting off two cylinders, cut off ONE. Do a little tinkering to get everything balanced again, and you suddenly have a triple of about 650cc's. It's not like Kawasaki hasn't done triples before. Slap a new, sexy fairing on that bike, and all of a sudden you've got something that's obviously for street use, is distinctive, cheap, reliable, but now SEXY. I mean, everybody raves about the sound and feel of Triumph triples for street riding--why give them a monopoly? If the SV is a "smaller, cheaper Ducati that's also good for beginners," why not make the EX a "smaller, cheaper Triumph that's also good for beginners"?
Price it at $6000 or less and buyers WILL come.
Honda's Web Site Misled Me Into Thinking XX gone '02
Thanks, Tony. I didn't know that's how they list their models.
I am glad to see them stop calling it a Blackbird and paint it red. I painted my 97 birdie red because car drivers seemed to take more notice, and red might mean stop to some of them.
Thanks, Tony. I didn't know that's how they list their models.
I am glad to see them stop calling it a Blackbird and paint it red. I painted my 97 birdie red because car drivers seemed to take more notice, and red might mean stop to some of them.
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13 Posts
I always wanted a Concours untill I rode one!
The seat is as usshey soft, the bags bounce up
and down like they are about to fall off, the
tranny shifts funny, but worst of all, the engine
buzzes the hell out of the handlebars big time
at highway speed!
The seat is as usshey soft, the bags bounce up
and down like they are about to fall off, the
tranny shifts funny, but worst of all, the engine
buzzes the hell out of the handlebars big time
at highway speed!
The bike looks pretty good, but why in all the mention of
other ST type bikes did nobody mention the Aprilia Futura?
That's the one I am thinking of dumping my Superhawk and
Ducati SS/CR for. V-twins vibrate, but they don't buzz your
extremities to sleep as a lot of straight fours do. By the way, I'd like to hear more from "Principal" about those Speigler handlebars and what modfications he had to make to use them. I'll look for his comments here if he has any to make.
other ST type bikes did nobody mention the Aprilia Futura?
That's the one I am thinking of dumping my Superhawk and
Ducati SS/CR for. V-twins vibrate, but they don't buzz your
extremities to sleep as a lot of straight fours do. By the way, I'd like to hear more from "Principal" about those Speigler handlebars and what modfications he had to make to use them. I'll look for his comments here if he has any to make.
Ride something with a paralever
Shafts are good if they have the kinks worked out. BMW has their crap togeather. There is nothing scary about their bikes with a paralever. A track day once is not hard riding. Most every one that shows up at open practious on a zx12 or busa gets schooled by even the 125's.
They are nice on the street and thats because they are suposed to stay there. bla bla bla.
Shafts are good if they have the kinks worked out. BMW has their crap togeather. There is nothing scary about their bikes with a paralever. A track day once is not hard riding. Most every one that shows up at open practious on a zx12 or busa gets schooled by even the 125's.
They are nice on the street and thats because they are suposed to stay there. bla bla bla.
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