Motorcycle Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The bike sounds okay, but it's resides in dullsville in the looks department (I'm talking 'bout the production version). It should look more agressive for it's 'street fighter' appeal to break in. The tail section should be changed immediately to something sharper and bolder.



And oh yeah, first post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
I will never buy a bike with an engine that has been "re-tuned" for torque (a.k.a. "de-tuned"). It would be much more pleasing for me to ride a street fighter type bike that i converted from the full sportbike. A used VTR would be ideal, but pick any type of sportbike and it will be better than the crap manufacturers try to sell for a premium price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Eighty percent of it is visually great, especially (for me) that big modern frame. The twin lamps and intake nozzles and such make it look like the fourth cast member from "Mystery Science Theater 3000," though.



Besides, isn't the point of a streetfighter to be a rorty angry stomping mother that makes the Harley guys look for a different playground? Makes sense with the Speed Triple, but probably not with a retuned factory 600. I can sort of see how the idea would come from Italy, given that nation's fondness for smaller displacements, but especially in America I'm not seeing a lot of success. Besides, anyone who really grasps the idea of a streetfighter knows a lot of the glory is in the modifying (sort of like an Acura Integra street racer) and will do something more honest and individualistic with a old stripped GSX-R or such, never mind the price difference.



If they wanted to do a ballsy 600 sport-standard, that'd be great. Lose the gawky stuff off the front, make the motor tractable and friendly and enthusiastic, and keep it agile. I'd wonder about market-segment overlap with the Bonneville, though.



Oh, and it's January 8th. Elvis lives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
How much?

The key to the equation (usually is)...how much for this doggy in the window?

You have the Suzuki SV650 for $5,700
You have the new Ducati 620i for $6,200

Where you going to get the fun to match the Suzuki and the name appeal to match the Duck, and my guess this bike will be $7,000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
Re: How much?

I would say that it would be too optimistic to expect a much lower price than that of the TT600.

On the other hand this bike should be well ahead in the hp department of the other two bikes you mentioned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Triumph should be ashamed of itself.

1 - Speed Four is a shameless attempt at trying to squeeze some blood (or in this case £'s) from a dead horse, the TT600. The firm has taken it's beta model TT, stripped off the bodywork, slaps some streetfighter lights on it, and sells it as a naked model. It is positively fugly!! Those intakes? That motor is completely not naked friendly. (Has anyone heard the term bad naked? This is bad naked.) So completely unnatractive.

2 - 955 is a pathetic attempt at trying to flog a "new" model. The block is the same only cast this time around. The frame is basically the same. The bodywork is a bad mixture of Japanese bike cliches.



Hinckley...listen up...this is the stuff failing mc firms are made of. Stop insulting peoples intelligence with models like these. (Nice Bonnie re-make though...a little expensive considering the lack of tank pads, gators, seamed tank, and those crooked pea shooters. )



Z (Believe it or not, a Triumph fan)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Re: How much?

MSRP $7495. After initial demand is met most Triumph dealers sell a bit below MSRP especially if you haggle, so street price should be ~$7K. For that you get more hp than 600-class V-twins, certainly world-class (if not the very best) sportbike handling, as well as the oldest most historic motorcycle marque on the planet (well, if you ignore the fact they went belly up once). YES older than H-D. And you sure won't see yourself coming and going. Like the other post said, where else you gonna get that? It's gonna be a hit even if certain styling features are well, controversial. Probably all for the better in the naked streetfighter niche --the worst thing you can do is look too conventional.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Fan maybe but you don't follow the charts...

for all it's faults the TT600 is one of Triumph's best-selling bikes. Never mind that it's a tad overpriced and underperforming compared to the best from the Big Boys. It's got more character in its killswitch than all of them have put together. Have you ever seen a Monster Dark? Your idea of "unattractive" (and maybe mine too) simply doesn't phase the target audience here. As for the Bonnie it seems they're trying to invite the aftermarket (they learned from the T'bird there's no point in providing gorgeous peashooters everybody is going to remove). This is a good sign since by inviting 3rd parties to support it they must intend to run the Bonnie a long time --they've got to know that's a big big factor in long-term sales of bikes that stay around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
I like it and I don't like it...



I like the looks (Ok, go ahead and flame me!) and I like the idea...



Unlike the TT600, no claims to dominance in the class are forthcoming - they don't exist in this class...



But damn, the TT600 is already down on power, and now it's gonna lose 11 more?! Won't that put it at like 75 hp or so? There's better be some SERIOUS gains in the midrange for that kind of loss - but there usually isn't when a bike is "retuned" which we all know really means DE-tuned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
You think so?

I dunno about the naked friendly motor. I really doubt that the snorkles do much besides look strange. The TT is a little underpowered relative to an R6, but who can really use an R6? It handles well and has good brakes, so I wouldn't notice a couple of missing horsepower or 10 more pounds. Aside from its (deliberately?) odd looks, it will be a pretty good bike.

The 955's new nose looks like a softened version of the old VFR, but think about how many of those current Japanese bike cliches came from the original 595. Look at the old VFR from the side and the SV650 from the front, for instance. Plagarism is basic to all cultures.

I would buy either a Daytona or a TT600 in a minute. The Speed Four might take a few hours or even days, though, because of the looks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
You're not getting it

A lot of people want a streetfighter style bike but don't want to actually build or modify one themselves, just like peole who buy chopper styled cruisers, like springer softails. Except that factory naked bikes are actually decent motorcycles. In America streetfighters aren't even that big, but in europe they are, and people are buying lots of small displacement naked sporty bikes as a result. Now what's this about an...Integrilous? Integrado? What? Streetfighters are like Acuras??

And to that guy below you, the SV and the Duc are good choices if that's what you want, but what if it's not? Neither of those bikes can compete with a TT600 in all out performance. The Duc MIGHT keep up on a road that favors a lighter twin's handling, and the SV might have a chance with an expensive suspension upgrade, but they'd both still be way down on power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Exactly my point. This bike will produce only about 5 HP more than an SV650 with a slip on muffler, weigh more, and cost an extra $2000 for all that Triumph "heritage". If you want a bike that will embarrass the speed four for $7500 then get the SV and put an exhaust and suspension work on it. OR... build your own from a full power sportbike.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Your point misses the point though...

People who want a bargain performer will buy the SV and do a few mods, yes. Good deal.

But as far as "embarrassing" a Speed4, impossible. Even if it loses the race! You see, some people are *embarrassed* to ride a Japanese motorcycle. I'm not saying should be, many are posers, but they are. It's kinda like wearing jeans from Walmart even if they are better and cost less. But even worse cuz you can't say you got it just to do yardwork, and the label is even bigger. Riding a Triumph, Guzzi, Ducati, Beemer, Aprilia, Cagiva etc you name it, you got class, panache, style and all the ladies wanting a ride on it --even if you don't go quite as fast ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
I don't think your figures add up. The SV650 costs $5,799.00. For that you get a carbed 90º twin, that makes 70 hp @ 8900 rpm. (MO numbers) The Baby Speed makes 97 hp at 11,750 rpm. Triumph specifically notes that this excludes the effect of the forced air induction. Even considering a 15% loss to the rear wheel (high considering a chain final drive), you have about 82.5 rear wheel horsepower, not including the forced air induction. Add this to better brakes, a better frame and better handling, a price tag of $7,499.00 is pretty good. That's $1,700 more than the SV, but you get a lot more and only an 11 pound difference in weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
I don't know where you're getting that figure of 97 HP from, but I am certain that is incorrect. The TT600 makes only about 88 or 89 HP as measured on a Dynojet dynomometer. The Speed Four is going to be retuned for torque (a.k.a. detuned), which the MO article states will result in 11 fewer ponies than the TT. So 88-11=77 HP. The SV650 with a slip on will make somewhere slightly over 70 HP most likely. The real advantage of the SV would be torque though. Despite the statement by Triumph that they are tuning for torque, I would bet that the Speed Four will have only 1-2 more lbs-ft more than the TT. That means the SV will still have a much flatter and therefore user friendly torque spread then the Triumph.

I remember the first TT600 I saw way back when they came out (like 2 years now). The guy couldn't get the thing rolling without using like 5K rpm, or else it would stall. How's that for the modern marvel of fuel injection. Whatever, to each his own, but I would rather spend my money on a very reliable/cheaper/smoother/etc motorcycle. Not that I'm even in the market to buy one though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
According to MO's dyno measurements...



SV650

Max Power: 70.9 HP @ 8900 RPM

Max Torque: 46.2 ft/Lbs @ 7200 RPM



TT600

Max Power = 90.6 hp @ 12,600 rpm

Max Torque = 39.3 ft/lbs @ 10,500 rpm



Note that these numbers were measured at the rear wheel and that we can safely assume that Triumph estimated a loss of about 11 hp at the CRANK, therefore we can assume that the loss measured using a dyno would not make the max hp fall under 80 hp.



Note that the max torque advantage of the SV is only slightly less than 7 lbs/ft although the torque spread is nicer (flatter). You should keep in mind that retuning the TT600 engine will make it lose in max hp but will favor a flatter (and possibly beefier) torque curve.



One very nice thing about the ECUs in the Triumphs is that you can modify the fuel maps using your computer (software and a cable are required). Don't put FI down, it can be pretty good thing more often than not.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top