2003 600 Shootout: Is 636cc Cheating?
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441 Posts
"[A]nd the word on the street, Huggybear, is that the Honda..."
LOL
LOL
First, I would like to say, great review... organised, well-written, and thorough.
My thoughts on the motorcycles
CBR 600RR: Overweight, Overpriced.
GSX-R 600: Yesterdays technology, but still a close competitor
R6: It's neck and neck with the ZX-6R. With different tires or a suspension setup, it might even be faster.
ZX-6R: The best of the best. THE bike to beat. How can you argue with radial brakes, inverted forks, and the lightest weight of the bunch. A little extra power always helps, as does the price tag of $8,000.
Expect Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki to hop on the bandwagon, and build future 650cc sportbikes.
My thoughts on the motorcycles
CBR 600RR: Overweight, Overpriced.
GSX-R 600: Yesterdays technology, but still a close competitor
R6: It's neck and neck with the ZX-6R. With different tires or a suspension setup, it might even be faster.
ZX-6R: The best of the best. THE bike to beat. How can you argue with radial brakes, inverted forks, and the lightest weight of the bunch. A little extra power always helps, as does the price tag of $8,000.
Expect Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki to hop on the bandwagon, and build future 650cc sportbikes.
MO doesn't "represent the Honda brand" in a way Honda finds acceptable? All because you (well, Minime) scuffed up their scooter and got a little drunk in Vegas? Well I'll be damned, I guess they want folks to 'meet the nicest people' on their bikes. *yawn*
I'll stick to the more interesting people that think sliding scooters around and the occasional drunken stupor make for real entertainment.
Damn The Man. We _hate_ The Man.
Keep up the good work and congrats on the newfound legitimacy.
-=Goggles=-
I'll stick to the more interesting people that think sliding scooters around and the occasional drunken stupor make for real entertainment.
Damn The Man. We _hate_ The Man.
Keep up the good work and congrats on the newfound legitimacy.
-=Goggles=-
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295 Posts
Great job on the review. Oh, Honda, who do you think you are? Look, I ride a Honda, and your prissy attitude problem with MO ticks me off. Fellow MOridians, this is your chance. Tell everyone that the Honda came in last. (I mean, they were a no show, so they are last by forfeit.) Do not buy a Honda, sneer at your friends that do.
As for me, I am an irrational idiot. I cannot yet afford it, but I'm working toward it. The Ducati is an awesome mount. The sound, the feel, the fantasy . . .
Vlad
As for me, I am an irrational idiot. I cannot yet afford it, but I'm working toward it. The Ducati is an awesome mount. The sound, the feel, the fantasy . . .
Vlad
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4 Posts
Yes. The Kawi is a class of 1. It is also evidence that Kawi knows that that can't win on even terms.
blacklisted
Honda has blacklisted you guys from getting any type of test bike.....4ever?
Even somebody who hated MO would have to admit that MO is the King of Motorcycle Web Magazines. MO has the most readers, tests, and content---thats not an opinion. Honda is acting like babies. Business decisions should be based on business facts....not emotions or personal grudges.
Honda has blacklisted you guys from getting any type of test bike.....4ever?
Even somebody who hated MO would have to admit that MO is the King of Motorcycle Web Magazines. MO has the most readers, tests, and content---thats not an opinion. Honda is acting like babies. Business decisions should be based on business facts....not emotions or personal grudges.
No...636cc is not cheating...Honda is...Honda does not like it when the truth gets out.
Honda traditionally is the most expensive of the Japanese big 4, both with motorcycles and cars as well. I like the Honda motorcyle products and have owned several, but they are often overpriced and have crappy suspension. The British press worships Honda products (The GSXR1000 whoops the 954, but the 954 still "wins"). MO tells it like it is...BIG MISTAKE...Honda, used to such codelling by the press, must be pissed off goood!. The other magazines say "every bike is good, no real winner, it depends what you want...blah, blah, blah". No real commitment inother words. MO-Kepp up the good work!
Honda traditionally is the most expensive of the Japanese big 4, both with motorcycles and cars as well. I like the Honda motorcyle products and have owned several, but they are often overpriced and have crappy suspension. The British press worships Honda products (The GSXR1000 whoops the 954, but the 954 still "wins"). MO tells it like it is...BIG MISTAKE...Honda, used to such codelling by the press, must be pissed off goood!. The other magazines say "every bike is good, no real winner, it depends what you want...blah, blah, blah". No real commitment inother words. MO-Kepp up the good work!
Interesting, as the 500 class gave way to the 550s of the GPz era, which later begat the 600 class now we are back to 650 class.
Sad about American Honda, my guess is that the RRW review has them spooked. Maybe after Kurtis saved 'em at Daytona they will loosen up... Not that Kurtis rides anything resembling what's on the showroom floor.
Daryl
Sad about American Honda, my guess is that the RRW review has them spooked. Maybe after Kurtis saved 'em at Daytona they will loosen up... Not that Kurtis rides anything resembling what's on the showroom floor.
Daryl
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10,903 Posts
Maybe VTwins aren't so "obsolete."
One can only wonder how much more competitive the Duc would have been with a 50 lb. weight loss.
Perhaps it's the steel trellis frame that's "obsolete."
Cheers to Kawi for launching itself back to the top. Now if I could just clear out a little more space in my garage.......................
One can only wonder how much more competitive the Duc would have been with a 50 lb. weight loss.
Perhaps it's the steel trellis frame that's "obsolete."
Cheers to Kawi for launching itself back to the top. Now if I could just clear out a little more space in my garage.......................
a Kawasaki is the featherweight of the class?! This has got to be a first! This is really turning me on! Bring on the ZX-10R!!!
two more points:
1. 636 is not cheating. Kawasaki has been competing against the litre bikes with a 900, against the Hayabusa with a 1200, and now they go one up on the 600s, suddenly everybody starts whining? I guess people just don't like their favorite brand for once being given a bloody nose by the dunce.
2. Honda, SCREW YOU.
two more points:
1. 636 is not cheating. Kawasaki has been competing against the litre bikes with a 900, against the Hayabusa with a 1200, and now they go one up on the 600s, suddenly everybody starts whining? I guess people just don't like their favorite brand for once being given a bloody nose by the dunce.
2. Honda, SCREW YOU.
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17,458 Posts
If Honda can call the old 736cc CB a 750...
If Suzuki can call the 1157cc Bandit a 1200...
If Honda can call the old 325cc CB a 350...
If BSA could call the old 625cc twin a 650....
(insert other examples here, ad nauseum)...
Then Kawasaki can call the 636cc bike a frikkin' 600 if they want.
What's the matter? Didn't po' widdo Honda get sufficient @$$-kissing? I guess they expect you to be a complete Honda toadying sycophant publication like Cycle World.
If Suzuki can call the 1157cc Bandit a 1200...
If Honda can call the old 325cc CB a 350...
If BSA could call the old 625cc twin a 650....
(insert other examples here, ad nauseum)...
Then Kawasaki can call the 636cc bike a frikkin' 600 if they want.
What's the matter? Didn't po' widdo Honda get sufficient @$$-kissing? I guess they expect you to be a complete Honda toadying sycophant publication like Cycle World.
Good Review, some comments on the R6
1. Checked the british mags; they all mention the front end feel in their road tests (with d208's) but not the launch( with pilots). In one launch review the 120/60 tire size is discussed, so I think the launch bikes were 120/60.
Could it be that the Dunlop is not a good choice for the R6? Weird that Yamaha would put them on the bikes.
2. Did you ask Yamaha why we got the MOST BORING COLOR choice? No red, no yellow. I like the blue design the brits get better. If I buy one, and I am considering as it is the one I like the look of, I will get the siliver, by default. I'd much preferred the red or yellow.
Jim
1. Checked the british mags; they all mention the front end feel in their road tests (with d208's) but not the launch( with pilots). In one launch review the 120/60 tire size is discussed, so I think the launch bikes were 120/60.
Could it be that the Dunlop is not a good choice for the R6? Weird that Yamaha would put them on the bikes.
2. Did you ask Yamaha why we got the MOST BORING COLOR choice? No red, no yellow. I like the blue design the brits get better. If I buy one, and I am considering as it is the one I like the look of, I will get the siliver, by default. I'd much preferred the red or yellow.
Jim
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8 Posts
No, 636cc is not cheating. The only thing that matters in commercial sales is the performance-to-cost ratio. It's notable that Kawasaki also has the lightest bike, despite the displacement advantage. Isn't that what it's all about?
Pity about Honda. They seem to be shooting themselves in the foot lately. First the VTEC VFR, now rumors of a VTEC Blackbird. What travesty will they commit with the CBR1000? Their race results and street performance are going in opposite directions. The same could be said about Kawasaki, fortunately to the consumer's advantage. If current trends continue, I'll be trading my Honda in on a Kawasaki next year.
Pity about Honda. They seem to be shooting themselves in the foot lately. First the VTEC VFR, now rumors of a VTEC Blackbird. What travesty will they commit with the CBR1000? Their race results and street performance are going in opposite directions. The same could be said about Kawasaki, fortunately to the consumer's advantage. If current trends continue, I'll be trading my Honda in on a Kawasaki next year.
you're either unprofessional or not
you say that Honda accused you of 'drunken unprofessionalism' on the part of Minime and you also brag about being fired for the same from Motorcyclist.
Well, if you are unprofessional, then don't bleat about when people treat you accordingly.
If you want to be a rebel, fine. I applaud your individualism. But don't cry about how you're treated afterward. That just makes you a hypocrite.
And if you're not unprofessional, then don't suggest that you are. Make up your mind.
Either you're professional and have been unjustly treated, or you're unprofessional as accused and have been justly treated. You don't get to have it both ways, and you don't get to play both rebel and victim.
you say that Honda accused you of 'drunken unprofessionalism' on the part of Minime and you also brag about being fired for the same from Motorcyclist.
Well, if you are unprofessional, then don't bleat about when people treat you accordingly.
If you want to be a rebel, fine. I applaud your individualism. But don't cry about how you're treated afterward. That just makes you a hypocrite.
And if you're not unprofessional, then don't suggest that you are. Make up your mind.
Either you're professional and have been unjustly treated, or you're unprofessional as accused and have been justly treated. You don't get to have it both ways, and you don't get to play both rebel and victim.
I have always liked Honda motorcycles and still do. I'm a past and very possibly future owner of Honda motorcycles. I'm a fan of Honda. Guys, it seems to me Honda's been dropping the ball lately. First the whole Edwards deal and now this? Honda, nobody says you have to always stand tall but your fans would like to see you at least stand up. Motorcyclists, I think, are passionate by nature. Where's your passion Honda? Don't be that cold, indifferent, Mega Corp. that would lose it's ability to excite or to have fans. If your products will only appear in Magazines guaranteeing a "favorable" review I'll not purchase them. The "Motortrends" of the journalism world seem very obvious to me. If "drunken unprofessionalism" has any part of making Motorcycle Online the fine and informative (passionate?) Magazine I have found it to be then so be it. I'm not MO's momma or a cop and Honda, neither are you. MO, John, Sean and Will thank you for a GREAT and to me highly anticipated comparo. Congrats Kawasaki! Every bike there looked like a winner in it's own way to me. PS I'd be glad to buy any of you a drink and talk bikes anytime.
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