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We Yuropeans are so innovative. Thats why people love our stuff. Like Ducati coming up with a revolutionary new line of, er, bright red V2s. In contrast to the japanese, they can’t innovate, its the same boring stuff year after year like Honda’s tired old boxer-6 streetfighter. Same old, same old.

- cruiz-euro
 

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Hmmm...I didn't find any 2007 Vision dyno (have any?) but the older models had 62 RWHP. Totally acceptable figure for middle weight adventure bikes I say. Newer ones have more power but this is how they started to cut Harley's slice of the market. Somebody must have suffered from serious lack of cojones when doing the specs.

What I found was a dyno of 2007 stock Fat Boy. Straight from the more-of-the-same school of thought. New bigger engine and 66 RWHP? A perfect match to Rune's 97.4 RWHP - if you bolt on a third cylinder. As Rune has more torque at idle than new Harley at any revs, I would say yeah baby.

Viewing a thread - ALL STOCK

- cruiz-euro
 

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I hear that after the presidential election a new model Victory V-Rodham will be launched. It will be downtuned to have modest 66 RWHP suitable for the ladies. Only downside is that as a feminine model it will be high maintenance and hard to get rid of.

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Not fault of Victory V-Rodham

Correct me if I'm wrong but it was the other family who took half of the riding gear & made you to make monthly payments for the next 50 years

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Those WMDs were very effective, they ruined the finances of the world's greatest nation. Pretty good performance considering they didn't exist.

However, American voters can't complain they were hoodwinked. Bush won the second term even when all this was clear.

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America is the only place I know where the poor are raging against univesal health care to cover themselves and their families.

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>Even Hitler was nice to the children of his friends

Well he wasn't all that nice to the children of his opponents. He put them into the gas chambers. In fact the crippled children were taken directly to be burned alive with the corpses - too cumbersome to move them around. No bleeding heart liberal that guy Hitler.

- cruiz-euro
 

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>higher standard of living than the middle class in socialist countries.

Socialist countries? Are we aiming low. How about making comparisons to other western industrialized countries? Which, incidentally, all have universal health care but not the States.

- cruiz-euro
 

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>The fact is that the poor in America get better treatment than
>any of the middle class in the nations with socialized medicine.

Being in the coveted position of having been poor both in the States and in Finland, among others, I can assure you that poor people get far better treatment where there is universal health care. And I am not alone in my opinions:

"Americans spend $5,267 per capita on health care every year, almost two and half times the industrialized world's median of $2,193; the extra spending comes to hundreds of billions of dollars a year. What does that extra spending buy us?

Americans have fewer doctors per capita than most Western countries. We go to the doctor less than people in other Western countries. We get admitted to the hospital less frequently than people in other Western countries. We are less satisfied with our health care than our counterparts in other countries.

American life expectancy is lower than the Western average. Childhood-immunization rates in the United States are lower than average. Infant-mortality rates are in the nineteenth percentile of industrialized nations...

Nor is our system more efficient. The United States spends more than a thousand dollars per capita per year-or close to four hundred billion dollars-on health-care-related paperwork and administration, whereas Canada, for example, spends only about three hundred dollars per capita."

Dept. of Public Policy: The Moral-Hazard Myth: The New Yorker

- cruiz-euro
 

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Well it really depens on what is meant by "socialist country". If universal health care is enough to classify a country socialist, then the only non-socialist countries on the planet are USA, Bongolandia and Rutabagastan. And of course Glerb.

Socialism, as understood in Europe where we actually had lots of the stuff, is a system where the means of production i.e. companies are all owned by the government.

Calling universal health care "socialist medicine" is OK but then you should call also your justice system "socialist justice system". And education, military, immigration agency, FAA etc. they are all socialist.

- cruiz-euro
 

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>There's no one prob;em with the USA's health care system that will
>be solced by handing control of it to unaccountable bureaucrats.

Hmmm... so it is better to hand control to private corporation whose main objective is to maximise profits? Not surprisingly you pay double (and for inferior care).

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Hmmm... I didn’t talk about acceptance. It is perfectly logical for someone accepting govt. running some services (like justice) and opposing involvement in something else, for example in assless chaps manufacturing industry.

I am merely pointing out, that calling universal health care “socialist (or socialized) medicine” is brainless unless the same person calls the fire brigades also socialist. The US army in Iraq is socialist. For this person the socialism has penetrated the whole America to the last last post office and school bus.

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