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Relatiively speaking, if you buy into that whole thing, "middleweight". Does that make it a "chick-bike" these days like they call the 883 (or the 350 Boss Hoss)? That Absinthe (or Ouzo) stuff can be tricky for young guys, if you should find some stashed around, Do the Right Thing! and send it to me for disposal promptly.
 

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Re: trademarked potatoes

I don´t want to disappoint you guys but potato-potato sound was invented by the europeans. The frenchies invented the V-2 single pin twin engine. The germans invented the V2 missiles. The english invented the paper weight with a picture of the Buckingham palace. You can´t argue with that.

- cruiz-euro
 

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Yeah, right. Unlike the fascinating world of Japanese 600cc and litre class sportbikes where each year yields more innovations that fewer (much fewer) than 1% of riders can take advantage of.



I'll admit the Triumph 675 was a breath of fresh air, but really, the ratio of engineering effort (not to mention motojournalist ink) to actual rider benefits in the two major sportbike classes leaves little room to criticize cruisers.
 

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Re: trademarked potatoes

You forgot the "e" on the end...........
 

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Blame the Republicrats/Demonicans for the sinking dollar VS. the Yen..............
 

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Refinement/reliability I think the Yami gets the edge, but the HD's are finally giving a little more for your $. Remember origially the metric cars were cheaper than domestics. Over time the Japanese reliability created more resale and new car $. Cruiser MC's are more bought on emotion and keeping up with the Jones. Also remember a lot of these higher $ metrics are better bikes than their predecessors. Harley is just now having to cave to giving the customer more.
 

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A 10 year old sportbike is a whole lot different than a new one. Whereas a 10 year old cruiser is often the same machine that's built today. At least the price of sportbikes hasn't skyrocketed like cruisers.



Noooo cruisers aren't boring at all.
 

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Re: Better? Different...

Thanks. That helps some. I road a Stratoliner on one of my favorite twisty roads, and although it has a very solid, composed feel, you still feel the weight as increasing effort at the bars, especially in high-speed sweepers. I guess I'll have to try to wrangle a ride on a 1300 from the same dealer around the corner from Route V.
 

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I don't hold any special brief for cruisers. Never had one until I bought a Valkyrie in 2002 and still ride a sport tourer (K1200RS) and a "standard" (Triumph T-Bird Sport.) However, to say that cruisers haven't changed in the last decade is simply not true.



Of course, the market segments are different, but ten years ago the first Valks were being delivered. It was, at the time, a monstrously large bike at 1500 cc's. Ten years ago there was no V-Rod, no VTX, no Road Star, Road Liner, Vulcan 2000, Suzuki M109, etc. Ten years ago Japanese cruisers were to American cruisers as 1950's Japanese sports cars were to European sports cars: pale imitations. And 10 years ago...even five years ago there was no Triumph Rocket III, a remarkable piece of engineering, even if it's remarkable only as an example of wretched excess. (Not my view, but a defensible perspective.)



Even HD has changed remarkably in the last decade. In 1996 there was no twin cam engine. Harleys were still known mainly by non-HD riders for the parts that littered the highway as they vibrated loose.



All in all, the last decade has seen tremendous changes in the cruiser market. HD's are much better bikes and 2007 HD's are arguably significantly different from those of only a couple of years earlier. Japanese manufacturers have improved the quality and features of their bikes, introduced new engines, new bikes, and (along with HD) opened a wholly new market segment in the form of "sport" cruisers. And now with the VStar 1300 joining the VTX1300, another niche market seems to be developing. And if all those changes aren't enough, it looks as if the old man of power cruisers, the VMax, is finally going to get long overdue changes to bring it to the new century.



Meanwhile, the sportbike offererings have changed, as well. But in what direction? More usability on the street where 99% of riding takes place?



I'm not dissing sportbike changes. Only pointing out that the changes, more power and lighter weight, are most obvious on the track, not on the street. Remapped FI's and weight savings in the range of a few pounds (or even ounces) are touted as if they're major engineering breakthroughs.



I did note that the Triumph 675 represented a major new element in the sportbike lineup, a mid-level sportbike with usable torque on the street. Now that's progress.



So why have sportbike prices remained relatively stable? Actually, I'm not sure they have compared to 1996, but let's assume they have. If so, I think the answer is pretty simple. The incremental changes from one year to the next in that market segment have neither required the engineering investment found in the cruiser market nor have they been sufficient to justify major price increases.



Sometimes it's difficult to take a long view with regard to motorcycle development, especially if "10 years" constitutes half a lifetime to the person considering the changes. But the last decade has seen very big changes in the cruiser category, driven largely by the demand of us aging riders who've looked for better bikes as we enter our golden years.
 

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Actually, I think most motorcycle market segments, not just cruisers, depend on purchases based "on emotion and keeping up with the Jones(es)." Considering that the average owner of a 2005 R1 taps (at most) 50% of its potential on a regular basis, the incremental "improvements" in the 2007 model hardly justifies trading "up" on rational grounds. Likewise for the changes in the 600 class.



No criticism intended. If emotion weren't involved, we'd all be driving Priuses rather than riding bikes. And if status weren't a driving force, Prius owners would probably be driving Corollas.
 

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Re: trademarked potatoes

I was making an obscure "Dan Quayle" reference.......
 

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I get your point.



"if status weren't a driving force, Prius owners would probably be driving Corollas. "



Now that gave me a good laugh. Never thought of Prius's as a status symbol. Then again I get your point. Just funny. LOL!
 

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Just bought one ! Loved the look of the bike, it's proportions and finish. Seriously considered the XVS1700 but for me the stretch from the seat to the bars was too far and the pillion pegs are situated almost in the centre of the riders seat, the wife/pillion pointed that out immediately upon sitting on the pad, she had to lean forward to put her weight on the pegs to dismount, wasn't impressed.

Anyway back to the 1300, bike fitted me like a glove, very comfortable, was worried about the small engine but found out from a UK site that the engine is 73HP @5500rpm and torque was 106 kgcm @ 4000rpm. Weight is 283kg dry. I think there will be plenty of useable power and a better top speed for passing. Previously being a Kawasaki nomad rider, I am looking forward to some responsive accelleration and some (comparatively) light weight cornering
 
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