2010 Native S Review

Hasn't anybody heard of a hybrid drive for ghodsake? Screw the batteries, have a small high-output diesel running a generator, to a bank of batteries, where you can either ride it on just the batteries, on both the batteries and the diesel, or just the diesel.

Uh, I think some small company named GM Electramotive might have tried the same thing with some success on a device called the DIESEL ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE? I could be wrong...

Remember HDT? The diesel KLR. Seems like somethng those boys should get on. They already have the first part hammered out with the diesel.

So, these guys won't take government subsidies, they're relying on organic growth rather than taking wads of venture capital, and they downplay their products and customer base rather than hyping themselves up.

HOLY CRAP, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM???

acecycleins said:

Remember HDT? The diesel KLR. Seems like somethng those boys should get on. They already have the first part hammered out with the diesel.

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But wouldn't adding 100-plus lbs of batteries and motors create a 600-plus-lb dirtbike...?

Kevin_Duke said:

But wouldn't adding 100-plus lbs of batteries and motors create a 600-plus-lb dirtbike...?

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If they could diesel the 250 motor and use the 650 platform using regen technology of braking and keep the weight at 450lbs then they might be on to something.

acecycleins said:

If they could diesel the 250 motor and use the 650 platform using regen technology of braking and keep the weight at 450lbs then they might be on to something.

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Oh yeah. A 450lb dirt bike. That'll fly.

Don't need all them batteries...

Kevin_Duke said:

But wouldn't adding 100-plus lbs of batteries and motors create a 600-plus-lb dirtbike...?

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Two deep cell 12volt batteries = 60 lbs. One small diesel direct injected motor & generator = 120 lbs. One 24 volt hi-torque electric motor = 50 lbs.

Total approx. hybrid powerplant weight: 230 lbs.

Add that to a rolling chassis weight of around 180 lbs and you have a hybrid electric motorcycle that weighs around 400 lbs.

Too heavy for a dirt bike, but in the ballpark for a street machine.

seruzawa said:

Oh yeah. A 450lb dirt bike. That'll fly.

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KLR, GS, last gen tiger- all over 400. I'm not saying that it's has to be a dirt bike. Just adaptable like a GS.

mscuddy said:

Two deep cell 12volt batteries = 60 lbs. One small diesel direct injected motor & generator = 120 lbs. One 24 volt hi-torque electric motor = 50 lbs.

Total approx. hybrid powerplant weight: 230 lbs.

Add that to a rolling chassis weight of around 180 lbs and you have a hybrid electric motorcycle that weighs around 400 lbs.

Too heavy for a dirt bike, but in the ballpark for a street machine.

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A small diesel engine with, say 10hp, will only give you about 10hp of continuous performance. The battery will give short spurts of increased performance but your average power available will be only what the donkey engine provides minus line losses. That's one of the problems with hybrids. Great for commuting but not so good for performance.

Who's saying anything about performance?

seruzawa said:

A small diesel engine with, say 10hp, will only give you about 10hp of continuous performance. The battery will give short spurts of increased performance but your average power available will be only what the donkey engine provides minus line losses. That's one of the problems with hybrids. Great for commuting but not so good for performance.

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I thought this whole electric bike deal was about saving the environment, green technology and alternative fuel economy?

You want performance, forget electric. Go with steam! Yeah, steam power baby...whooo whooo....

mscuddy said:

I thought this whole electric bike deal was about saving the environment, green technology and alternative fuel economy?

You want performance, forget electric. Go with steam! Yeah, steam power baby...whooo whooo....

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BTW. Those small deep cycle batteries you see at auto supply places aren't really deep cycle. They are marine batteries and are hybrids with both deep cycle and starting features. Real deep cycle batteries are more expensive. I just bought a big 12V real deep cycle battery for my cabin, Weighs about 120lbs and costs $175.

I had deep cycle batteries on my sailboat. It didn't have a generator, but the diesel had a high-output charging system that could charge the two "house" batteries in a couple of hours run time. Those batteries could run the stereo, tv, cabin lights and fans, and small electronics for days without recharge. I never really missed not having a noisy, smelly generator; the only "luxury" missing under way or at anchor was A/C, which I only really needed at dock where there was 110vac anyway.

Here's a nice discussion on batteries and their uses.

Deep Cycle Battery FAQ