4 Bikers wiped out around Daytona
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I'm guessing the R1 had its forks snapped off. I hope the frame didn't break. Common theme of cars pulling out in front. Small size and rapid closing rates are something car drivers just aren't used to. Me either when I'm in a car. I feel sorry for the families for their losses and for the drivers who must now deal with the sights and sounds of those impacts for the rest of their lives. The deceased have my prayers.
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No. I'm just speculating that aluminum, being less malleable than steel, could fracture under extreme conditions. Aluminum engine cases tend to crack rather than bend. Ever tried to straighten aluminum clutch/brake levers? It's moot since either way the bike is toast.
I wonder how fast he was going. Or if alcohol is a factor.
One doesn't expect a news article to be accurate anyhow.
I wonder how fast he was going. Or if alcohol is a factor.
One doesn't expect a news article to be accurate anyhow.
OK, let's stir up a helmet law debate...
...it's Monday morning, I'm cranky, I wanna see some fur fly. So lets have at it, shall we?!
What do you MOrons think it means when out of 4 dead riders, you have 1 wearing a novelty helmet, 2 wearing full faces, and one poor dude who apparently was messed up so bad they couldn't even bring themselves to describe him. ? Oh, and no dead helmetless riders.
Could it be the same phenomenon that has led to statistics showing that cars with ABS and airbags have NOT led to a decrease in fatalities? That is to say that when people feel safer they drive more dangerously and basically neutralize the safety gains. I know that I personally ride far more aggressively when fully geared up in power ranger regalia than when tooling around in a "no helmet law" state.
What does all this mean for the relative merits of helmet laws? What color do you think Martha Stewart is going to paint her jail cell? And why am I paying $2.50 for premium gas these days?
I want answers damn it!!!
...it's Monday morning, I'm cranky, I wanna see some fur fly. So lets have at it, shall we?!
What do you MOrons think it means when out of 4 dead riders, you have 1 wearing a novelty helmet, 2 wearing full faces, and one poor dude who apparently was messed up so bad they couldn't even bring themselves to describe him. ? Oh, and no dead helmetless riders.
Could it be the same phenomenon that has led to statistics showing that cars with ABS and airbags have NOT led to a decrease in fatalities? That is to say that when people feel safer they drive more dangerously and basically neutralize the safety gains. I know that I personally ride far more aggressively when fully geared up in power ranger regalia than when tooling around in a "no helmet law" state.
What does all this mean for the relative merits of helmet laws? What color do you think Martha Stewart is going to paint her jail cell? And why am I paying $2.50 for premium gas these days?
I want answers damn it!!!
Re: OK, let's stir up a helmet law debate...
Holy sh!t, if premium is that much, what does regular cost? I'm moving out to San Diego this summer, so I would love to know how much the cost of living is going to screw me. The future wife has a diesel VW Jetta; how much does diesel cost out there?
I wonder what these car drivers get for causing a fatal accident. Certainly in these cases excessive speeds were surely involved on the part of the motorcycles, but if they had been going the speed limit what would be the result then? Would the drivers just walk away with an apology. I know they didn't necessarily behave recklessly like Jankoff, but they would still be responsible for causing a fatal accident. Any thoughts?
Holy sh!t, if premium is that much, what does regular cost? I'm moving out to San Diego this summer, so I would love to know how much the cost of living is going to screw me. The future wife has a diesel VW Jetta; how much does diesel cost out there?
I wonder what these car drivers get for causing a fatal accident. Certainly in these cases excessive speeds were surely involved on the part of the motorcycles, but if they had been going the speed limit what would be the result then? Would the drivers just walk away with an apology. I know they didn't necessarily behave recklessly like Jankoff, but they would still be responsible for causing a fatal accident. Any thoughts?
Sample size too small
I think the sampe size is too small on this one. 4 is too small. See these studies on what happens when you repeal the helmet law
Martha will paint her cell a nice spring green.
Gas is up cause of OPEC production has been cut back. Too bad we couldn't spend that $200 billion on Iraq on making us less dependent on foreign oil huh. Oh well I am sure the Iraqi's appreciate our help.
I think the sampe size is too small on this one. 4 is too small. See these studies on what happens when you repeal the helmet law
Martha will paint her cell a nice spring green.
Gas is up cause of OPEC production has been cut back. Too bad we couldn't spend that $200 billion on Iraq on making us less dependent on foreign oil huh. Oh well I am sure the Iraqi's appreciate our help.
Re: OK, let's stir up a helmet law debate...
The answer is pretty simple. All you need to do is read any helmet debate we have here.
Helmet wearer says: "Riding without a helmet is stupid. I always wear mine. Your gonna die, but I'm protected."
Helmet wearer has the misguided notion that just because he places a piece of plastic on his head that 2 truths occur:
1. He's never gonna die in a bike crash.
2. He's somehow "smarter" than the non-helmeted guy.
Helmets are fine protective gear, but they will not make the above true. Surviving on a motorcycle takes skill, brains, restraint, and experience. Helmets can help with heads hitting pavement, but the point is to not hit the pavement at all. Unless helmet mfgs. can perform a brain transplant by just inserting head in helmet, I'm afraid most people are just as unskilled, stupid, reckless, and inexperienced as they were before. That means they are probably gonna bite it, helmet or not.
The answer is pretty simple. All you need to do is read any helmet debate we have here.
Helmet wearer says: "Riding without a helmet is stupid. I always wear mine. Your gonna die, but I'm protected."
Helmet wearer has the misguided notion that just because he places a piece of plastic on his head that 2 truths occur:
1. He's never gonna die in a bike crash.
2. He's somehow "smarter" than the non-helmeted guy.
Helmets are fine protective gear, but they will not make the above true. Surviving on a motorcycle takes skill, brains, restraint, and experience. Helmets can help with heads hitting pavement, but the point is to not hit the pavement at all. Unless helmet mfgs. can perform a brain transplant by just inserting head in helmet, I'm afraid most people are just as unskilled, stupid, reckless, and inexperienced as they were before. That means they are probably gonna bite it, helmet or not.
Re: OK, let's stir up a helmet law debate...
I agree with you that there are more stupid people out there than smart. However, I think that mandatory helmet laws can help save the lives of those stupid folks. Look at it this way: did you wear a helmet when you rode a bicycle as a kid? No, of course not. Not because your parents were stupid or didn't care about your safety, just because they didn't even consider a helmet that important. I know that some of us are so old that the helmet had yet to be invented, but make believe if you have to. So nowadays there are many states with mandatory helmet laws for kids under a certain age. These laws undoubtedly prevent death/brain damage in many cases each year. The law is there to help the ignorant be safe when doing something that they would not necessarily think is dangerous.
Anyhow, there are always going to be stupid, reckless individuals out there. How many of us can say that they never went a little faster than could be considered safe? Not many is my guess. So if you were killed/injured in such a situation, would you automatically be unskilled, stupid or reckless? I don't think so, after all we are all human and therefore can make mistakes. The intent of helmet laws is to prevent needless injuries to anyone that may be involved in an accident. No, we shouldn't all be wearing helmets around all the time, but hopefully you see what I mean.
I do wear a helmet all the time, and no I don't think that those who do not wear them are stupid. They are just taking a bigger risk than me. Maybe they think they are too skilled/cool/tough/whatever to wear a helmet.
I agree with you that there are more stupid people out there than smart. However, I think that mandatory helmet laws can help save the lives of those stupid folks. Look at it this way: did you wear a helmet when you rode a bicycle as a kid? No, of course not. Not because your parents were stupid or didn't care about your safety, just because they didn't even consider a helmet that important. I know that some of us are so old that the helmet had yet to be invented, but make believe if you have to. So nowadays there are many states with mandatory helmet laws for kids under a certain age. These laws undoubtedly prevent death/brain damage in many cases each year. The law is there to help the ignorant be safe when doing something that they would not necessarily think is dangerous.
Anyhow, there are always going to be stupid, reckless individuals out there. How many of us can say that they never went a little faster than could be considered safe? Not many is my guess. So if you were killed/injured in such a situation, would you automatically be unskilled, stupid or reckless? I don't think so, after all we are all human and therefore can make mistakes. The intent of helmet laws is to prevent needless injuries to anyone that may be involved in an accident. No, we shouldn't all be wearing helmets around all the time, but hopefully you see what I mean.
I do wear a helmet all the time, and no I don't think that those who do not wear them are stupid. They are just taking a bigger risk than me. Maybe they think they are too skilled/cool/tough/whatever to wear a helmet.
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You think you're cranky? Comparo?
You didn't sit idling for 30 minutes yesterday on a geezer glide in 85 degree weather on La Cienaga while the LA Marathon blocked traffic.
While I was leaving Hollywood about 9 am this morning, I was sitting at a stoplight and four brand new litre bikes pulled up next to me. One each from Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki. It is too much of a coincidence that four buddies with brand new bikes would ditch work and go riding today.
Three pulled into a gas station and the GSXR1000 rider went another block up and pulled into a restaraunt. I'm guessing it was either Sean or Boehm.
I didn't stop to see who they were when they pulled off their helmets.
The Burgundy R1 is gorgeous. The ZX-10 is nice looking also. The Honda and Suzuki are average in the looks department.
You didn't sit idling for 30 minutes yesterday on a geezer glide in 85 degree weather on La Cienaga while the LA Marathon blocked traffic.
While I was leaving Hollywood about 9 am this morning, I was sitting at a stoplight and four brand new litre bikes pulled up next to me. One each from Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki. It is too much of a coincidence that four buddies with brand new bikes would ditch work and go riding today.
Three pulled into a gas station and the GSXR1000 rider went another block up and pulled into a restaraunt. I'm guessing it was either Sean or Boehm.
I didn't stop to see who they were when they pulled off their helmets.
The Burgundy R1 is gorgeous. The ZX-10 is nice looking also. The Honda and Suzuki are average in the looks department.
Let's see 4 folks killed during bike week out of how many? Sounds like the odds were beaten by all but the poor bastards who died. Note of the ones listed in the article, all but one were caused by STUPID car drivers. How can you NOT see a bike during bike week, I mean DAMN!
Now may be I am a bit cranky because I could not go to Bike Week because some a$$hole changed lanes into the HOV lane (and then just sat there with no one in front of them, then took off after I crashed. Thank GOD I expect them to pull over in front of me, I had already slowed quite a bit, the not moving was a twist I did not anticipate) in Atlanta causing me to either hit him, hit the wall, go into the full traffic lane or drop the bike. Per the witness in the car behind me 'he had no choice but hit the car or drop the bike'. The shoulder has grates that parallell the flow of traffic, nice huh, ain't going over there. 2 months later (and one really pretty scare on my knee to fix it), I am finally back at work with a repaired knee cap, healing road rash, some still sore joints and less one very good helmet (now with chucks missing) and riding suit (cut off by the ER folks).
What is the point of all this, well, crashing sucks, but brain dead car drivers really suck, and that is what killed all but one of the folks (and who knows if a car was involoved or not in the ran off the road crash) in the article. To hell with the helmet law issue, apparently did matter for these folks. Damn pity we have to keep dying and getting injured because some folks in cars just do not pay attention!
BTW, I rode my sidecar rig to work this morning just out of pure spite of the cardiots. And yes, I drove her in the HOV lane.....
And remember, BOYCOTT STURGIS....
BigJames
Now may be I am a bit cranky because I could not go to Bike Week because some a$$hole changed lanes into the HOV lane (and then just sat there with no one in front of them, then took off after I crashed. Thank GOD I expect them to pull over in front of me, I had already slowed quite a bit, the not moving was a twist I did not anticipate) in Atlanta causing me to either hit him, hit the wall, go into the full traffic lane or drop the bike. Per the witness in the car behind me 'he had no choice but hit the car or drop the bike'. The shoulder has grates that parallell the flow of traffic, nice huh, ain't going over there. 2 months later (and one really pretty scare on my knee to fix it), I am finally back at work with a repaired knee cap, healing road rash, some still sore joints and less one very good helmet (now with chucks missing) and riding suit (cut off by the ER folks).
What is the point of all this, well, crashing sucks, but brain dead car drivers really suck, and that is what killed all but one of the folks (and who knows if a car was involoved or not in the ran off the road crash) in the article. To hell with the helmet law issue, apparently did matter for these folks. Damn pity we have to keep dying and getting injured because some folks in cars just do not pay attention!
BTW, I rode my sidecar rig to work this morning just out of pure spite of the cardiots. And yes, I drove her in the HOV lane.....
And remember, BOYCOTT STURGIS....
BigJames
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So you wanna move to San Diego?
Regular is about $2.20 or so. The median price of a home is about $480,000.
Thank God I bought my house ten years ago. A fixer upper in my neighborhood goes for about $600,000 plus.
The neighbors choke when I tell them my house payment is $550 bucks a month!
Good luck with your three jobs RonXX! Welcome to San Diego.
Regular is about $2.20 or so. The median price of a home is about $480,000.
Thank God I bought my house ten years ago. A fixer upper in my neighborhood goes for about $600,000 plus.
The neighbors choke when I tell them my house payment is $550 bucks a month!
Good luck with your three jobs RonXX! Welcome to San Diego.
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Re: OK, let's stir up a helmet law debate...
#2 Diesel is currently running around $1.97/Gal in the SouthBay/LA area.
#2 Diesel is currently running around $1.97/Gal in the SouthBay/LA area.
Re: OK, let's stir up a helmet law debate...
"How many of us can say that they never went a little faster than could be considered safe? Not many is my guess. So if you were killed/injured in such a situation, would you automatically be unskilled, stupid or reckless?"
Yes.
"Maybe they think they are too skilled/cool/tough/whatever to wear a helmet."
Or maybe they just don't want nor need one.
"How many of us can say that they never went a little faster than could be considered safe? Not many is my guess. So if you were killed/injured in such a situation, would you automatically be unskilled, stupid or reckless?"
Yes.
"Maybe they think they are too skilled/cool/tough/whatever to wear a helmet."
Or maybe they just don't want nor need one.
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17,449 Posts
More people die every year falling down in the shower. I think that mandatory shower restraint devices can save those lives. So we should require everybody to use one and fine them if they don't. Better yet we can deny them health care if they got injured in the shower and weren't wearing their restrain device.
Many elderly people die every year because they fall down at home. We should mandate that all homes of elderly be equipped with a TV montoring system to a centralized observation center. If the elderly can't afford it then their children should be forced to pay. I know that many misguided people think that they should have privacy in their homes but these accidents cost the taxpayers millions in healthcare costs each year. We need to stop letting ridiculously overblown ideas of personal freedom cost us all higher taxes.
Bank failures (like the big S&L scandal that Sen. McCain was involved in) have cost the taxpayers millions and destroyed the life savings of thousands of people. We need to mandate that every person in the US pay a 10% tax on top of their current taxes to provide a safety net of money in case of bank failures.
Okay this is getting silly, but don't forget that the same reasoning used to justify halemt laws can also be used to ban motorcycles altogether. In fact that sort of reasoning opens the door to unlimited govt control of any activity that can be deemed dangerous. One of the above 3 stupid ideas has been suggested seriously by an advocacy group. Can you guess which one?
Many elderly people die every year because they fall down at home. We should mandate that all homes of elderly be equipped with a TV montoring system to a centralized observation center. If the elderly can't afford it then their children should be forced to pay. I know that many misguided people think that they should have privacy in their homes but these accidents cost the taxpayers millions in healthcare costs each year. We need to stop letting ridiculously overblown ideas of personal freedom cost us all higher taxes.
Bank failures (like the big S&L scandal that Sen. McCain was involved in) have cost the taxpayers millions and destroyed the life savings of thousands of people. We need to mandate that every person in the US pay a 10% tax on top of their current taxes to provide a safety net of money in case of bank failures.
Okay this is getting silly, but don't forget that the same reasoning used to justify halemt laws can also be used to ban motorcycles altogether. In fact that sort of reasoning opens the door to unlimited govt control of any activity that can be deemed dangerous. One of the above 3 stupid ideas has been suggested seriously by an advocacy group. Can you guess which one?
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