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It's not that we think this three-bike test is "a waste of time and resources," it's that it's just not valid as a real 600 comparison without the Honda, at least, being included.



The undercurrent to all of this, of course, is that Homeric set of delays and disconnects that made producing this such a bear. Now that it's done, is there any way you could tell us all what happened, from snowstorms to completion? I bet it will be sidesplitting to read, if not experience.
 

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So... we have the four cylinder winner.



Seeing as there wouldn't be much of a comparo in the 650cc V-twin class, I guess the SV is the obvious winner there.



How about SV v. 6R in a real world + streets 'o willow shoot-out?



 

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What the heck is this!!! Did you guys seriously run a 2000 Triumph against an '01 Yamaha and Kawasaki??? Weren't you around last year when everyone was bashing the TT last year? I realize MO didn't test it but come on... this "test" took all of 3 or 4 months to finish and you guys don't even have the right year bike, or know how many years a bike has been produced?



On top of that, you "pull no punches" reviewers end up with no real definitive winner here. The Kawasaki is hard to beat... what about against the F4i?? As was mentioned earlier, how does the bike judged to be the "best streetbike" from the first test, get left out of the all street run?? How is the Kawasaki, which is no less a racer than the F4i, left out of the track? I saw the explanation for dragstrip times, but again you are leaving the Kawasaki and R6 out of one of their strong points. I can't imagine any reader is happy with the fact that a CBR was left out of an all street test, or the exclusion of the Kawasaki from the track. I know, the Kawasaki runs slower than the others and with the GSXR being updated probably would have been the dog this year but that never kept the old Suzuki out of the tests.



Finally, this whole thing about "don't litter the responses" is a huge copout for what is clearly subpar work. I've got a deal for MO... I won't litter with my posts if you don't litter with your content.
 

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I have to agree with Haga 100% here.



1) Comparing a 2000 TT (or was it a 2001?), and taking all this time (more like 7 months, initial 2001 shootout ran Feb 9, 2001)???



2) Absolutely no ranking of these 3, when there is clearly a 1(R6) 2(6R) 3(TT) ??? What's up with that. The whole idea of the F4i initially losing to the R6 in what was supposed to be a "street biased" shootout was hard to take (heresy for CBR owners) and now this wishy-washy "comparo"



3) Don't bother asking us to not litter the forum. If the forum is for "reader feedback", I read the story, I was disappointed, here's my feedback. Don't have a forum if you don't want the feedback.



 

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Bonus threaded message (so not everybody has to read it)



What a joke this whole review was. I hope you didn't spend much money on that, I doubt your donations will hold out much longer. As for getting people to pay for this site, I highly doubt that. Long-time leaders have clearly seen the quality dropping in the past. I sincerely hope you guys can turn things around. But if not its been fun while it lasted.



One more thing, I like how the specs and Dyno chart link to the one for the Part 1 shootout (748/GSXR/F4i/R6) Hmm, where's the info for the bikes in this shootout (TT and 6R). Oh well one more shortcoming.
 

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well, now that we have all vented our aggresion, can we talk about bikes for a minute? I would like to get some opinions about 600's myself, biased as they may be. Geez, and he even asked you to talk about you bikes too. Usually ya can't get people to shut up about their favorite bike. So how bout it you 600 riders? whatcha got? What have you done to it to make it better that the factory should have? Inquiring minds want to know!!!!
 

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Insurance Question...

I'm looking to trade in my ole Vulcan for a new sportbike (either a Suzuki GSX-R 600 or a Honda F4i)... My problem is that if I get a loan, the bank will require full coverage on the bike. SO, who do ya'll have insurance with AND, if you don't mind, how much is it???
 

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I currently have a new GSX-R750. It's a fun bike but it has it's problems for any ride longer than 2 hours...the weight is on your wrists, the back gets a little sore, the legs cramp up and the engine resonates through the handlebars.



I have ridden the R-6, ZX-6 and the CBR and of the lot I would have to say that I would definately enjoy having the Kawi for the long haul and for around town. The engine is so milky smooth that the other bikes seem harsh after riding it. The hydrolic clutch is light and the engine's powerband is very usable. Believe me, if your friends have any of the other 600's they will not be running away from you on this bike unless there is some skill level discrepencies. Chalk one up for Kawi for a bike that you can live with and would want to keep for the long haul, like a VFR.



However, Kawi has got to do something about their graphics and paint schemes as they're butt-ugly. Really...a red bike with red wheels?!? Pointy black and white graphics?!? Geeeeeez
 

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I own a 00 ZX6R. Great bike, easy to ride. Good for going around town and what not. I do flog it on a weekly basis near the Santa Cruz mountains, and it does very well. I'm tallish (6ft2), so the bike fits me nicely. I can ride for over an hour without feeling any discomfort. Haven't changed anything drastic yet, just a few cosmetic things here and there.
 

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Re: Insurance Question...

IF you buy an R-6 using the YAMAHA credit card, they don't require insurance for purchases under $10,000. Sweet deal. Check it out at your local Yammie dealer (if there are any R-6s left!)
 

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The Triumph is a Year 2001 version. The rerferences to a first-year effort are as such because the bike has not changed since it's intro. That is, unless you count a re-mapped Fi system that still doesn't work correctly as a new bike.

And as for why we weren't "bashing the TT last year," this is because we didn't have one from Triumph until a few weeks ago. Which is, again, why it took "3 or 4 months" to finish this.

And as for why the Kawasaki was left out of the "original" shootout, to reiterate: Kawasaki was not able to provide us with a bike in time, even though we held the shootout for them for more than two weeks.

The CBR? It's my personal favorite all-around bike. I would have voted it tops here, though there are still people (some of whom test for us) who do not get on well with the F4i and who would have relegated it to something other than top spot here (just like they did in the "original" shootout). And since the requests we got for this shootout were the winner (of the "original" shootout) versus last year's winner versus the new kid Triumph TT, that's just what we did.

Please note: it was never our intention to do two seperate shootouts. We were all set to do one huge shootout with ALL contenders in every conceivable situation (ones that we could conceive of, anyway) set with track times scheduled, sticky rubber for all bikes involved, dates to be gone from the office for lots of real-world back-to-back testing etc. But we were missing two very important bikes. The readers knew this and, as stated above, requested THIS shootout. So we did it for them.

Do not think your points (all of you posters) are ignored. They will be addressed based on merit and changes will be made.

So, here's looking to the future, hoping manufacturers get us their bikes on time when they say they will, and for making MO's tests what you want them to be (within reason, of course. We have a hard time explaining to the women in our lives why we NEED nude women in our content).

-minime

Note: We just received a very cool new instrument that will allow us to provide you with everything from 0-60 times, quarter mile times, maximum acceleration (both positive and negative) in G's, and even some other things that might not be relevant, though we'll have to spend some time with the gadget to find out for ourselves.
 

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Minime, that is one of the best responses by an MO staffer I have ever read. You could have easily ripped Haga (me and others) for our continued complaints. But instead you took the high road, and explained a little of why things happened as they did.



I would kind of correct or question one thing, and that's the statement "And since the requests we got for this shootout were the winner (of the "original" shootout) versus last year's winner versus the new kid Triumph TT, that's just what we did." I don't ever remember seeing anything where the readers asked that you conduct the shooutout this way. It seems more that it was an MO decision, driven my many situations and beyond their control. I think a possible change could have been the R6 and F4i (1 & 2 from part 1) with the TT600 and ZX-6R. Then maybe the F4i would have prevailed, but unlikely since it seems the testers as a whole gave the R6 a slight edge. Still hard to understand from somebody that went through the process of buying a 600 in 2000. The R6 (and GSXR of that time) were just that much more uncomfortabe for my less than perfect supersport frame (let's say say short and heavy). But then I guess the F4i is a little less comfortable (slimmer/hard foam seat) than the 00 F4.



Anyway, great work keep up the good job. You deserve a pat on the back for handling some negative feedback very well (unlike the whole racing results posting issue where you poked fun at the people who wanted the results left off the main news page story segment).
 

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I bought a 00 F4 in April last year. I put 10K on it so far (8500 last year). Mostly day rides, and a few overnight or longer trips (1 6 days). When I shopped in late 99, the F4 was the bike that fit me best. I'm 5'7", 200lbs, generally most sportbikes are too aggressive seating. Particularly the R6 and the GSXR. The R6 was surely the best track/race bike out of the box, but too oncomfortable. So it was between the F4 and ZX-6R. The Ninja has a great motor, but I didn't care much for the graphics. I actually had wanted a 99 red/black F4, but couldn't find anymore as spring wore on, and got the 00 red/silver.



Anwyay I love it, it can go 250-300 mile days (consecutive) without killing your back/wrists. Its a blast to ride, especially in the really tight roads, esses, switchbacks it turns effortlessly and goes whenever you need it to.
 

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Steve, you know we have to poke fun at y'all sometimes, too. We can't always be all professional and politically correct. If we did that, you'd expect far too much from us ;)

And as for this shootout being a MO decision as opposed to one derived from reader's feedback, that's truly not the case. Remember that what you see here in the Reader Feedback area represents only the smallest fraction of MO's readership as (on average) only about 10% of MO's readers go to the Daily News section, and of that percentage, only a small number bother to post things. Our main readership (not that you guys are insignificant -- far from it, actually) isn't all that concerned with Daily News and reading other people's feedback, but more with different features and such. And, since that's the case, many people send us e-mails directly, out of this public forum. Those e-mails overwhelmingly requested this shootout.

Again, thanks for all the feedback (both positive AND negative) from MO readers. With this open dialogue, it can't help but be a win-win situation in the long run.

Thought: I'd entertain the notion of having one (un-lucky) reader join us for part of our next shootout. Maybe that reader could offer others a different perspective of all that goes into a test. And then provide what he thinks about the bikes in contrast to our jaded thoughts? Just a thought, anyway. Hmmmm...
 

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I own a 2000 ZX6R, I love it. My previous bike was a 94 CBR 600 F2, and the ZX puts that bike to shame. I commute every day (about 60 miles round trip) and go looking for twisties on the weekend. I can ride this bike all day with no problems. Most of us don't get to ride all the new bikes and I am one of those people I have not riden any of the other 600s, but I would highly recomend the ZX.
 

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Re: Insurance Question...

I'm currently paying about $1250/Year for 100% full coverage on a 2001 ZX6R until my balance is below $5000. If you're at all interested in a ZX6R, their interst rates are Ok. I think mine is 14%, which is high, but decent for a motorcycle. I'd recommend giving the ZX6R a test ride. You may be surprised!!
 
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