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Original Article:
AMA-SBK: Fontana preview

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[MOKE1K]

Hopefully we will see some new faces on the box. Like Tommy Hayden the eldest of the Haydens!

 

[MOKE1K]

Opps looks like it didnt turn out to good for Larry this time, hopefully he's alright and unhurt. And hey, his traction control was working? Gosh wonder why it wasnt able to keep him from highsiding?

 

[Dr_Sprocket]

That picture in and of itself does NOT indicate what happened. Did you watch the race? Can you explain what happened? If you can, please enlighten us.

Is it possible that his crash was the result of something someone else did? I didn't see the race, so I don't know. Perhaps he had to overcorrect to prevent a collision, resulting in the photo.

And, yes, that proves my point - that even the best riders in the world make mistakes. Because pro riders do, then even more so noobs need these safety devices, if they are going to buy a race bike (which we all agree they shouldn't). Thanks for the evidence! You're finally starting to see the light.

 

[MOKE1K]

Its funny how you get pulled in so easily, like a moth to the flame. Is that why they call you Pull-y? Besides its a joke? HELLO?

Re-read past post cause the argument was not that pro riders make mistakes. It was why the componet is put there and for who? Nothing from your minimal experience will ever make me agree with you, but keep making yourself sound intelligent,...to you!

I f you say pro riders make more mistakes then new riders your REALLY LOST, why dont your measure each in both enviornments then give us your findings. Again someone else to judge something they have only watched on t.v.? Come on Pully go take a track day, please! Then maybe we can talk!

 

[Dr_Sprocket]

Bad logic

Re-read past post cause the argument was not that pro riders make mistakes. It was why the componet is put there and for who? Nothing from your minimal experience will ever make me agree with you, but keep making yourself sound intelligent,...to you!

Are you suggesting that only people who have raced can make informed decisions? You've never competed in the Olympics. Correct? Yet, I have no doubt that you would be able to tell the difference between a good gymnastics routine and a bad one, correct? Or a good dive and a bad one? How are you able to do this?

I f you say pro riders make more mistakes then new riders your REALLY LOST,

I didn't say that. Please read my post.

why dont your measure each in both enviornments then give us your findings. Again someone else to judge something they have only watched on t.v.? Come on Pully go take a track day, please! Then maybe we can talk!

I'd love to go to a track day. It'd be cool to see you there, too! No doubt, you'd be faster than me because of your vast experience. I was going to go to the Buell track day over in New Jersey, but you needed a full suit. I can't justify the cost of a racing suit for one track day, or several track days for that matter. I priced them online, but they don't make stock suits for lanky dudes like myself. Custom Vansons were over $1500.

What level of racing did you get to? If you're so good, how come you're not out there on the AMA circuit racing Pegram? Did you ever get a factory ride? Do you think you could take Pegram... or any other pro rider? Just asking.

 

[acecycleins]

Moke- using Larry as you arguement is silly. TC works. However, there's only so much TC can do when the tires are cold. If Larry had heat then the LIKELIHOOD of lost of traction is significantly reduced. Can a rider accomplish the same attributes as TC by wrist action? I think that the way bikes are produced for racing these days the answer is no. It is significantly harder to keep traction to the ground with the current crop of racing machines. TC wasn't designed to aid the rider as much as the bike itself. Riders may rely on it, but engineers had lurking reasons for TC. Say for example- tire management. Say- "dialable" chasis flex. Say- Suspension set up. There are probably more, but I'm busy doing homework with my kid.
You and Dr arguing overt TC is absolutely silly. If it didn't work the way engineers thought it would then the practice would stop. It's not stopped- it's advanced. TC is here to stay. It works. It's saved rider ass. It's not going away. Get over it.
Do that and I won't dog Mat for the rest of the year. I'll leave that up to LR. But Mat is in it for the $$$ not for the glory of being the world best. I'm not sayin..... I'm just sayin....

 

[MOKE1K]

This was no argument it was a joke to see if Pully would react,....

 

[Dr_Sprocket]

This was no argument it was a joke to see if Pully would react

You know, Moke. When people say they are "just kidding", they really mean what they say. Just kidding.

 

[longride]

I'm always just kidding Pulley. And I mean it too!

 

[MOKE1K]

Are you suggesting that only people who have raced can make informed decisions? You've never competed in the Olympics. Correct? Yet, I have no doubt that you would be able to tell the difference between a good gymnastics routine and a bad one, correct? Or a good dive and a bad one? How are you able to do this?

I didn't say that. Please read my post.

I'd love to go to a track day. It'd be cool to see you there, too! No doubt, you'd be faster than me because of your vast experience. I was going to go to the Buell track day over in New Jersey, but you needed a full suit. I can't justify the cost of a racing suit for one track day, or several track days for that matter. I priced them online, but they don't make stock suits for lanky dudes like myself. Custom Vansons were over $1500.

What level of racing did you get to? If you're so good, how come you're not out there on the AMA circuit racing Pegram? Did you ever get a factory ride? Do you think you could take Pegram... or any other pro rider? Just asking.

Are you suggesting that only people who have raced can make informed decisions? You've never competed in the Olympics. Correct? Yet, I have no doubt that you would be able to tell the difference between a good gymnastics routine and a bad one, correct? Or a good dive and a bad one? How are you able to do this?

I didn't say that. Please read my post.

I'd love to go to a track day. It'd be cool to see you there, too! No doubt, you'd be faster than me because of your vast experience. I was going to go to the Buell track day over in New Jersey, but you needed a full suit. I can't justify the cost of a racing suit for one track day, or several track days for that matter. I priced them online, but they don't make stock suits for lanky dudes like myself. Custom Vansons were over $1500.

What level of racing did you get to? If you're so good, how come you're not out there on the AMA circuit racing Pegram? Did you ever get a factory ride? Do you think you could take Pegram... or any other pro rider? Just asking.

Boy you sure like to put words in my mouth, first off I was joking. My response was in reference to what you had stated,

And, yes, that proves my point - that even the best riders in the world make mistakes. Because pro riders do, then even more so noobs need these safety devices,

I have never said Pro riders dont make mistakes, the only argument we seem to have when your not veering of the topic, is why these specific components are put their in the first place and who they are more suited for. Its not for the new rider, its more for a racer. You always seem to change the discussion? Like this,...
Are you suggesting that only people who have raced can make informed decisions?

And finally this,...

I'd love to go to a track day. It'd be cool to see you there, too! No doubt, you'd be faster than me because of your vast experience. I was going to go to the Buell track day over in New Jersey, but you needed a full suit. I can't justify the cost of a racing suit for one track day, or several track days for that matter. I priced them online, but they don't make stock suits for lanky dudes like myself. Custom Vansons were over $1500.

What level of racing did you get to? If you're so good, how come you're not out there on the AMA circuit racing Pegram? Did you ever get a factory ride? Do you think you could take Pegram... or any other pro rider? Just asking.[/QUOTE]

I think everyone should go to a trackday, it will greatly reduce the risks you face everyday on the road. Why think your only going to use the suit once?
Many people become addicted after one visit, and realize how much skill is obtained at these trackdays.

I have never said I was "so good at racing", I only got to club level if you want to say I even got to that level? I wanted to start AMA but never had the money. My lack luster seasons usually ended after totaling the cost of fixing the bike was more than I could handle. I did however do pretty good one year with a sponsored bike. I doubt I could hold Larrys jock. If you have the talent its just a matter of seat time. Now I do it for fun as a hobby. I still enjoy learning and also teaching. When ever I have the money and time. I started late (20yrs old )but was competitive for the limited time I had been
racing. If I could have continued I could have probably been a regional winner but AMA is a big bite, so who knows where I would have ended up.

 

[Dr_Sprocket]

I have never said Pro riders dont make mistakes, the only argument we seem to have when your not veering of the topic, is why these specific components are put their in the first place and who they are more suited for. Its not for the new rider, its more for a racer. You always seem to change the discussion?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I will always hold that those safety devices are developed on the track for the real world. If Sachi were still around, I'm sure she could enlighten you on the effect of a multi-million dollar lawsuit on corporate policy and product development.

I think everyone should go to a trackday, it will greatly reduce the risks you face everyday on the road. Why think your only going to use the suit once?
Many people become addicted after one visit, and realize how much skill is obtained at these trackdays.

No doubt. There have been several discussion on this (and other discussion boards) debating about whether racing experience carries over to real-world street riding. Do you know of any evidence to suggest that closed-course racing reduces chances of road collisions? On a race track, the environment is controlled for you (as best as possible). On the road, there are many factors out of our control. Example:

Japanese motorcycle racer 'Norick' Abe dies in traffic accident - International Herald Tribune

 

[MOKE1K]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I will always hold that those safety devices are developed on the track for the real world. If Sachi were still around, I'm sure she could enlighten you on the effect of a multi-million dollar lawsuit on corporate policy and product development.

No doubt. There have been several discussion on this (and other discussion boards) debating about whether racing experience carries over to real-world street riding. Do you know of any evidence to suggest that closed-course racing reduces chances of road collisions? On a race track, the environment is controlled for you (as best as possible). On the road, there are many factors out of our control. Example:

Iam fine with that, agreeing to disagree. the simple fact of the matter is alot of those components are put their so when they go racing its a stock component meaning it came with the bike so its legal for racing. But don't fool yourself into thinking they develop TC, multiple maps, slipper clutches and steering dampners for the street? This is not the car industry it's the motorcycle industry. Besides I havent heard and lawsuits steming from a slipper clutch.

Now, getting to your other question. Hypathetically speaking if you were to take a trackday and severely shortened your ability to stop quicker? Wouldn't that make you a better street rider? If you also learned to whip the bike from side to side at about 30-50mph whilst staying on the gas wouldnt this also make you more evasive. The more you practice something the better you get.

I dont understand why a smart guy like yourself can't see the potential. Listen just because its a so called "safe enviornment" doesnt mean your not on the edge of traction, and being on that envelope for extended periods of time makes you comfortable with that edge. Making you ultimately a better rider. But again, dont fool yourself into thinking its not as dangerous or more to be at speed, at the edge of traction, using the full amount of braking, accelerating as hard as possible out of every turn for ten laps. It's a hoax not to realize the track is a very dangerous place, remember the pros make it look easy on t.v. Also debating that one professional racer got killed on the street is a senceless argument and imo no way to prove anything. The street will always be more dangerous than the track because of its countless unexpected obsticles. BUT there is no logic in thinking the track is safer because it doesnt have any of these obsticles, it does, they're just a different set of obsticles and your going alot faster so the mistake can be just as fatal.

 

[seruzawa]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I will always hold that those safety devices are developed on the track for the real world. If Sachi were still around, I'm sure she could enlighten you on the effect of a multi-million dollar lawsuit on corporate policy and product development.

No doubt. There have been several discussion on this (and other discussion boards) debating about whether racing experience carries over to real-world street riding. Do you know of any evidence to suggest that closed-course racing reduces chances of road collisions? On a race track, the environment is controlled for you (as best as possible). On the road, there are many factors out of our control. Example:

Iam fine with that, agreeing to disagree. the simple fact of the matter is alot of those components are put their so when they go racing its a stock component meaning it came with the bike so its legal for racing. But don't fool yourself into thinking they develop TC, multiple maps, slipper clutches and steering dampners for the street? This is not the car industry
its the bike industry. Besides I havent heard and lawsuits steming from a slipper clutch.

Now, getting to your other question. Hypathetically speaking if you were to take a trackday and severely shortened your ability to stop quicker? Wouldn't that make you a better street rider? If you also learned to whip the bike from side to side at about 30-50mph whilst staying on the gas would this also make you more evasive.

I dont understand why a smart guy like yourself can't see the potential. Listen just because its a safe enviornment doesnt mean
your not on the edge of traction, and being on that envelope for extended periods of time makes you comfortable with that edge. Making you a better rider. But again, dont fool yourself into thinking its not as dangerous or more to be at speed, at the edge of traction, using the full amount of braking, accelerating as hard as possible. It a hoax not to realize the track is a very dangerous place, remember the pros make it look easy.

With ABS becoming more common and eventually mandated it won't matter about braking any more. Too bad really.

 

[MOKE1K]

Dont worry there will still be old farts like me using manual brakes!

"Hey guys, come over here and look at these, this guys got real rotors"

 

[Dr_Sprocket]

Iam fine with that, agreeing to disagree. the simple fact of the matter is alot of those components are put their so when they go racing its a stock component meaning it came with the bike so its legal for racing....

But again, dont fool yourself into thinking its not as dangerous or more to be at speed, at the edge of traction, using the full amount of braking, accelerating as hard as possible out of every turn for ten laps. It's a hoax not to realize the track is a very dangerous place, remember the pros make it look easy on tv...

BUT there is no logic in thinking the track is safer because it doesnt have any of these obsticles, it does, they're just a different set of obsticles and your going alot faster so the mistake can be just as fatal.

I have to say, Mokester, that is one of the most sensible posts you've made so far. No joke! Thoughtful, insightful and a balanced point of view. Good job, brah!

 

[MOKE1K]

Only when the moon's aligned properly with the Earth. But yes for me there is no better way to heighten your ability. Managing that buell you have would be tricky on a tight coarse. Most times I cant really discribe what I want to say,but thanks.
Oh and by the way they rent the leathers down here in Florida @ JenningsGP. $60.00 Look to see if they do this in your area.