Motorcycle Forums banner

AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

42189 Views 150 Replies 39 Participants Last post by  Janicelok626
one Environment. why burn it?

I figure that given the current performance of motorcycles we can probably afford to stick a cat on road bikes. Bollocks to the cost.

They do it in cali for lots of bikes now, and it makes a lot of sense.

Now all we need to do is get them to force the same standard on SUVs.
21 - 40 of 151 Posts
Booo, AMA. Even though bikes pollute less than cars just based on the mileage, that's no reason we can't do our part. The technology is obviously there, look at the GL1800. Meets 2008 and ROMPS.

And how would reducing emissions "compromise the safety of riders"? If any manufactuer is stupid enough to mount a CC where it can burn someone, it's not the EPA's fault.

The argument about this making motorcycling too expensive for beginners is also very weak. You can get a CX500 that runs like a top for less than a grand if you look around. Why so many beginner motorcyclists buy new is beyond me. What this may do is reduce the number of beginner bikes models available, but I doubt it will make them more expensive.

Looks like the AMA is too worried about keeping everyone happy. The "big tent" AMA. Wasting political capital on fighting emissions and helmet laws. If I didn't race motocross (yes, on my dirty two-smoke, I'm a hypocrite, I'll be on a CRF450 when I can scrape together $4k for a nice used model, so be quiet) I doubt I'd be a member.
See less See more
Yeah, we all know that sportbike guys never modify their exhausts.
Another reason why I shouldn't renew my membership.

First the idiot helment thing now this. The AMA has ***** for brains. They should be working on protecting motorcyclist by lobbying for stiffer penalities for cage drivers causing the deaths of motorcyclist. This really lowers their credibility. If I was president of the AMA I would take the opposite approach. Promote motorcycles as a clean alternative to traffic problems and energy conservation. To do that you must support clean air standards. Honda has no problem meeting these standards. I suspect ShortHop's (longride) Harley brothers are behind this. If it wasn't that for the chance of winning free motorcycle cycle I wouldn't sign up again. Dumb ass AMA. They make us all look like trailer trash idiots who won't wear helments and want to trash the environment.
SeraSuzy you are right about passing on the cost but I am sure that innovative engineers at Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki will have no problem building clean machine only Harley will have trouble making it
Honestly what makes more noise in your neighborhood, a race piped sportbike or a drag piped cruiser?

Most sportbikes arent offensively loud till above 6k rpm. Add in tall gearing and if they do romp on it they are about 3 blocks away within a few seconds.

Cruisers (changed from harleys as the metrics around here are getting pretty [email protected] loud to) are low geared, normally take a hell awakening blip on each downshift. Then a couple blips while looking each way at a stop sign and finally roar off shifting two or more times within your block.

Now a piped Ducati (or other performance twin) is right in the middle. Louder than hell but still high enough geared to get away quickly.

Granted it seems the majority of sportbikers add a pipe, but I do see a good number running stock. Now when a quiet cruiser goes by I take notice, its so few and far between they do stand out. Ive seen / heard about 2 in the last six months or more.

Cruisers seem to be making noise for the sake of making noise, not for the performance. If someone is honestly interested in performance they wouldnt be on a cruiser. Then again I was laughing out loud today when I left work. There is an R1 with a pipe and carbon fiber all over it with about a 2 inch chicken strip on each side of the tires. I thought they were new tires at first but now its been a couple months and nothing has changed. Can you say squid?
See less See more
Hey, it's nighttime. This whole emissions thing is depressing.
OMG, please read Thomas Sowell's book "Basic Economics".
Re: Another reason why I shouldn't renew my membership.

Maybe I look like a "trailer trash idiot", but I can spell "helmet" correctly. Probably most of my "Harley brothers" can also. That is why as a demographic we are better educated and make more money than you. We can also lobby effectively and think clearly, while not looking like morons in the process. If you want to use my name in a post, be sure it meets my standards, else I will easily prove who really has the shyt for brains.
The real point, is motorcycles are a drop in the emissions bucket. Insignificant to the pollution that is tossed in daily by cars, SUV's and horribly smoking trucks and trains and busses. Since it really isn't a solution to a much bigger problem, why have it? Because they can. I am sure the AMA is telling them that they have bigger fish to fry than the motorcycle industry. The AMA certainly has to use all the tools at their disposal to make their case, and you say these sound foolish. It's no more foolish than charging a guy with 15 felony counts when he punches someone in the nose. They will allow 14 to get tossed to get one to stick. If you charge him with 1 and it gets tossed then he walks. Number of arguments can win in Washington, not just the best ones. Just as the gun lobby protects their rights in a steadfast manner, so should we. Some of the gun lobby stances look foolish on paper, but in reality they know where the end game lies. Regulate guns out of existance. All you saying how the Japanese can meet these standards easily, is funny. Already the bikes are jetted so lean that most of them run like crap out of the factory. Maybe when KPaul gets a ticket for rejetting his carbs or using a Power Commander to get his bike to run correctly will he then squeal like a pig. The Japanese couldn't save the 2 stroke from extinction, and the day will come soon when they have to significantly reduce performance to reach standards that will be in effect. That's the end game folks. Only then will KPaul get his head out of his a$$ and start crying about it, but alas, much too late. These standards aren't the end game, but just a step closer to it. If the EPA can prove that motorcycles are a significant problem, I would be all for it. Since we know they aren't, it's just more another useless regulation. It's not as if we don't have enough of those already.
See less See more
Re: Another reason why I shouldn't renew my membership.

That is why as a demographic we are better educated and make more money than you.

Woo Hoo! Break out the elitism cannons! We're richer and therefore better! MONEY=PERSONAL WORTH. That's the spirit, Longride ol' chum.


Jeff Skilling

Fomer CEO Enron Corp.
I had an idea 20 years ago and still think it should be explored. Basically the whole USA should have a decreasing pollution target for personal vehicles. Let's say the measure is co2. Translate the total co2 emmission for the whole country into gallons of gas and then divide by the number of licenced drivers. Each driver is then given the ability to purchase that much gas over the course of a year. If someone doesn't want or need their full credit, they can sell them on the open market. Once their credit is used up that person is all done. This rewards people who ride motorcycles, bicycles, busses, and efficiency in general. It punishes folks who insist on driving gas hogs, boats, etc... What do people think ?
Your premise is based upon your assertion that a government regulation is a business opportunity. That's the kind of economic thinking that went into failed business and empires worldwide.

Historically that story is inaccurate, btw. The Arab-Israeli conflict on 1967 lead to ridiculous U.S. policy on oil, namely price caps by Nixon that lead to shortages of oil. Who would have thought that price controls lead to shortages?

In the 60s and 70s cars did not run like crap; it was called the musclecar era for a reason.

Here's the problem. This regulation has not undergone any cost/benefit evaluation. Statistically speaking, motorcycles contribute little to pollution problems nationwide. This is based upon emission indicies and population and miles ridden of motorycles. In effect, this is regulation for the sake of regulating. Governments being arbitrary and stupid is why this country rebelled from England was founded in the first place.

As for people being mad at SUV drivers, think about two things: The first is that three of the best selling vehicles in 2001 are pickup trucks, two holding the top two honors for a total of 2,000,000 vehicles. Pickup trucks make up 37% of the market, a majority being considered large (66%). By way of comparison, large SUVs only make up 8% of the total truck market. If you want to reduce pollution consider regulating all trucks, not just SUVs. The second is that by imposing standards on SUVs because you don't like them and don't want to see them on the road will not be the result of the regulations. Automobiles with more stringent regulations have been getting bigger, not smaller.
See less See more
Re: Cry me a river...

Effective at what? Reducing pollution by 0.00001% Shouldn't governmental efforts be better used elsewhere?

If a robber comes into your house and steals your money, do you let him take your furniture too, because after all, he's in your house anyway?
Cruisers seem to be making noise for the sake of making noise, not for the performance.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Freer flowing pipes on a cruiser with proper jetting does increase the performance, just like it does on a sportbike. Both are substantially louder. Your excuses don't change the fact that sportbike guys put on louder pipes than necessary for the purpose of "look at me, I'm noisy" just like the cruiser guys. And their pipes are loud all along the powerband, not just "above 6K". You probably can't tell any more since your own loud pipes have deafened your own hearing.

Certainly the handful of horsepower gained on a sportbike serves no purpose anywhere but on the track since you can't use anywhere near the bike's stock potential on the street. And not 5% of these loud sportbikers are going to any track, since there's not one within 400miles of where I live.

By the way I do find overloud pipes irritating, whatever kind of bike sports them. I just don't have this cruiserphobia that makes me distort reality.
See less See more
Forget what you learned in college. It is mostly Keynesian crap designed to fool people into supporting insane govt spending. If those professors actually knew anything about real economics they'd be millionaires, not college professors.

All costs eventually fall upon the consumer. Every single one. All taxes, all social security contributions, all fees and regulatory costs fall onto the consumer. All those multimillipn dollar civil suits are paid by us, not the deep pocketes companies.

Anyone who tells you that "business pays" is fibbing to you.
It's called rationing. As a kid I experienced it during WWII.

1) Evading it becomes the principal national pastime

2) Crime gets better organized to efficiently distribute illegal fuel ( better than prohibition!)

3) The richer you are, the less you need to worry about it. The poor go to jail.

4) Tripling fuel economy overall is technically feasible right now without hybrid solutions, which can multiply efficiency by 5.

Rationing sucks.

See less See more
Re: Another reason why I shouldn't renew my membership.

Well, "ol' chum" you said I was better. I said as a demographic, "trailer trash" like me that don't wear "helments" could spell, are more educated and make more money than you superior Japanese bike owners that wear "helments". No brag, just fact. Don't like it? Ask me if I care. It was your conclusion that I was "better", not mine. Obviously, logic isn't your thing either. "Because this, then that" is a common error in logic, but since your idea of personal worth has nothing to do with education, intelligence, or success you wouldn't understand that anyway. See ya later "ol' chum".
Hey Jmeyn, can I sell ya an "A" card?
They don't like SUVs because that is the current propaganda line carried by the press. SUVphobia is the latest press-created cause-of-the-month. THe PR artists speak and the lemmings line up to jump into the sea.

Did you know that the president of the Sierra Club at the time that the Sierra Club came out against SUVs personally drove a Suburban? You see, these rules aren't meant to affect the elites.

21 - 40 of 151 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.