I suppose in a crackdown on emissions, all noxious emissions sources should be regulated. It also makes sense to start with the worst offenders... like coal burning electric plants and diesel trucks. And only then move on to the lesser offenders, like cars, lawn-mowers, weed-whackers, leaf-blowers, etc. And then deal with motorcycles wherever they fall in the list of "Worst offenders." What galls me in all this is that the EPA can walk right over us just because we are a minority with a weak lobbying group. Not every senator rides a bike, but I bet the gaping majority hire somebody to mow their lawn and clean up with leaf-blowers. So which do you think will get regulated first? No-brainer here...
AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions
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Re: Selective Memory
A Civic is fast?LOL Who are you kidding? Buy a Civic and put a ***** can muffler on it is working on it? $20,000 isn't a lot of money? My brother has a 69 442 that cost him $20,000 to put together from a basket that has disc brakes, tight suspension and his makes 500hp 550 ft lbs of torque and drives on the street just fine. Would you like to race him with your $20,000 Civic? THAT is performance for $20,000. I think the one that has selective memories is you. GM put out 12 second cars right out of the factory in the 60's. Your 17 second Civic with the ***** can muffler and flames isn't performance. It's looks. Just like you complain the Harley guys do. Yeah, I have selective memory that you can't touch a 60's muscle these days without a trainload of cash. Must be lots of selective memory out there.
A Civic is fast?LOL Who are you kidding? Buy a Civic and put a ***** can muffler on it is working on it? $20,000 isn't a lot of money? My brother has a 69 442 that cost him $20,000 to put together from a basket that has disc brakes, tight suspension and his makes 500hp 550 ft lbs of torque and drives on the street just fine. Would you like to race him with your $20,000 Civic? THAT is performance for $20,000. I think the one that has selective memories is you. GM put out 12 second cars right out of the factory in the 60's. Your 17 second Civic with the ***** can muffler and flames isn't performance. It's looks. Just like you complain the Harley guys do. Yeah, I have selective memory that you can't touch a 60's muscle these days without a trainload of cash. Must be lots of selective memory out there.
Re: one Environment. why burn it?
It is this attitude that is killing America. The EPA's head is way up it's ass but lets follow along like sheep. Don't worry about the cost, we're protecting the environment dammit! Remember that nice little additive BETA that the EPA put into gasoline? Well, it seems that BATE is a water soluable carcinagin(sp) that has pulluted nearly all the wells in southern California. The EPA should be dissolved.
It is this attitude that is killing America. The EPA's head is way up it's ass but lets follow along like sheep. Don't worry about the cost, we're protecting the environment dammit! Remember that nice little additive BETA that the EPA put into gasoline? Well, it seems that BATE is a water soluable carcinagin(sp) that has pulluted nearly all the wells in southern California. The EPA should be dissolved.
While I love stirring the pot, most of the people on this thread agree that the AMA is on the wrong side and not "taking responsibility" for our actions. Apparently we dont really care for pollution. Yet you mention Noise pollution and suddenly everyone is A OK with it.
We b!tch and moan about how the cage drivers have negative views of us and are always out to kill us. Well guess what, the more you pi$$ someone off the worse it gets. Why would our Gov or any nonrider take our community seriously when we go out of our way to pi$$ off as many people as we can. Nonetheless the AMA lobbying for more brown air and the removal of Helmet laws. When I hop in my wifes cage I have to put on my seatbelt, its a law. Yet I dont see AAA leading the charge of cage drivers up to the state capitol trying to get it removed. Nonetheless all those cage drivers running uncorked headers on their drive to the capitol.
I guess most of us have our heads so far up our a$$'s that we cant hear our loud pipes any more. Trust me, all your neighbors within a 4-block radius of where you happen to be can and do you think they like it? Now just think how many of those people have the right to vote. Do you now see our riding freedoms leaving as fast as I do?
My above post is addressing noise in neighborhoods (WHERE THE VOTING PUBLIC LIVES). You mess with people in their homes and there is going to be trouble. As Longride admits he is running OPEN pipes on his bike. I have not seen one single sport bike running a completely uncorked header on the road, yet many o cruisers are. I'm not saying modified sportbikes arent a problem; they are loud and annoying too. Yet the higher pitch they emit doesnt penetrate walls half as bad as the low booming of a v-twin. When you are rattling plates in a housewifes cupboard, your not making friends.
No seruzawa I'm not deaf from my own loud pipes, I dont run them. I cant see how $500 - $1000 for 5 more HP on the top that I dont need is worth pi$$ing so many others off.
Come on people, take a little responsibility.
We b!tch and moan about how the cage drivers have negative views of us and are always out to kill us. Well guess what, the more you pi$$ someone off the worse it gets. Why would our Gov or any nonrider take our community seriously when we go out of our way to pi$$ off as many people as we can. Nonetheless the AMA lobbying for more brown air and the removal of Helmet laws. When I hop in my wifes cage I have to put on my seatbelt, its a law. Yet I dont see AAA leading the charge of cage drivers up to the state capitol trying to get it removed. Nonetheless all those cage drivers running uncorked headers on their drive to the capitol.
I guess most of us have our heads so far up our a$$'s that we cant hear our loud pipes any more. Trust me, all your neighbors within a 4-block radius of where you happen to be can and do you think they like it? Now just think how many of those people have the right to vote. Do you now see our riding freedoms leaving as fast as I do?
My above post is addressing noise in neighborhoods (WHERE THE VOTING PUBLIC LIVES). You mess with people in their homes and there is going to be trouble. As Longride admits he is running OPEN pipes on his bike. I have not seen one single sport bike running a completely uncorked header on the road, yet many o cruisers are. I'm not saying modified sportbikes arent a problem; they are loud and annoying too. Yet the higher pitch they emit doesnt penetrate walls half as bad as the low booming of a v-twin. When you are rattling plates in a housewifes cupboard, your not making friends.
No seruzawa I'm not deaf from my own loud pipes, I dont run them. I cant see how $500 - $1000 for 5 more HP on the top that I dont need is worth pi$$ing so many others off.
Come on people, take a little responsibility.
We must take a stand to save our planet
The amount of denial about pollution amazes me. We're already full of all kinds of deadly poisons and dying of cancer, but we don't care, because we want everything without taking any responsibilityfor our actions and the consequences, and don't try to mess with me poisoning myself and everyone around me: waaaah!
Get a grip, people. We need to pass a CLEANER planet to our children, not a dirtier one. Manufacturers don't want pollution rules becuase they're lazy, and in league with the gas companies (who own our government). I'd like a new law that in ten years every vehicle must get at least 50mpg, and the exhaust of every vehicle is pumped directly into the helmet of the rider or interior of the car. You can bet Honda would make that feasible in half the time.
My next bike will meet the 2008 pollution laws or better. Why? Becuase I love my daughters, and I know that supporting unsustainable pollution is murder. If you're against cutting pollution, you want to kill your children with poison; it's as simple as that.
Open your eyes, people. We've been borrowing since the industrial revolution and went into hyper destrution after WWII. It's time to pay-the-piper, and we have only ourselves to blame. I choose the consequences of tough pollution laws.
The amount of denial about pollution amazes me. We're already full of all kinds of deadly poisons and dying of cancer, but we don't care, because we want everything without taking any responsibilityfor our actions and the consequences, and don't try to mess with me poisoning myself and everyone around me: waaaah!
Get a grip, people. We need to pass a CLEANER planet to our children, not a dirtier one. Manufacturers don't want pollution rules becuase they're lazy, and in league with the gas companies (who own our government). I'd like a new law that in ten years every vehicle must get at least 50mpg, and the exhaust of every vehicle is pumped directly into the helmet of the rider or interior of the car. You can bet Honda would make that feasible in half the time.
My next bike will meet the 2008 pollution laws or better. Why? Becuase I love my daughters, and I know that supporting unsustainable pollution is murder. If you're against cutting pollution, you want to kill your children with poison; it's as simple as that.
Open your eyes, people. We've been borrowing since the industrial revolution and went into hyper destrution after WWII. It's time to pay-the-piper, and we have only ourselves to blame. I choose the consequences of tough pollution laws.
You are obviously educated beyond your intelligence.
Yes, pay no attention to the guy who received his Ph.D. in Economics from the University of Chicago and works at the Hoover Institution at Stanford. I should be taking economics from you, dolt with a keyboard.
Yes, pay no attention to the guy who received his Ph.D. in Economics from the University of Chicago and works at the Hoover Institution at Stanford. I should be taking economics from you, dolt with a keyboard.
Joined
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17,448 Posts
I don't know how we got off on this noise thing. I like a few decibels of noise, but not enough to violate the old-fashioned noise ordinances. There is plenty of blame to spread around about loud pipes. I do hear more cruiser types with loud pipes, but this is probably because you can get their pipes much much cheaper than you could a decent 4into1.
Remember the "less sound, more ground" campaign in the 70's? Well most of us quieted our bikes but they still closed the land to us.
Remember how the manufacturers agreed to stop building 3-wheelers (after 60 Minute's bogus hitpiece)? Well the anti-ATV people only saw that as a success and redoubled their lobbying efforts to get ATVs banned completely.
I guess my point is that, though I may disagree with the AMA on many things, they still are our most effecting lobbying group. Like the NRA I hold my nose and send in the bucks, because no one else is going to fight as effectively to protect what rights we still have.
Remember the "less sound, more ground" campaign in the 70's? Well most of us quieted our bikes but they still closed the land to us.
Remember how the manufacturers agreed to stop building 3-wheelers (after 60 Minute's bogus hitpiece)? Well the anti-ATV people only saw that as a success and redoubled their lobbying efforts to get ATVs banned completely.
I guess my point is that, though I may disagree with the AMA on many things, they still are our most effecting lobbying group. Like the NRA I hold my nose and send in the bucks, because no one else is going to fight as effectively to protect what rights we still have.
More like $20k after tax and all the other [email protected] List was $17,199. Though its not the cat that costs that much. Take a close look at every CA approved metric cruiser, they are all running them. You'll notice a nice fake chrome piece making it look like a long low pipe but upon closer inspection you'll see the flat black actual pipe being diverted beneath the bike, into and out of a cat. Also the MMI commercial on Speed shows a student removing a cat'd system from a metric cruiser. Most any bike sold in CA is already there, so whats the big deal? Oh wait, S&S, West Coast Choppers and the like are the issue. Talk about special interests...
Joined
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17,448 Posts
Re: We must take a stand to save our planet
Here in Utah we experienced a reduction in Wasatch Front pollution due to the cleaner late model cars. So what did the State do? They allowed the polluting industries to increase their emissions, thus returning to air to the maximum sate of pollution that they can get away with.
The EPA allows big polluters to avoid improving their emissions through cheapcrap scams like when Dow buys up a thousand pre-1975 cars and junks them and scraps them. Dow now gets to avoid expensive pollution reduction costs. And some EPA officials get a nice fat retirement job as a reward.
The EPA's going after bike pollution is like a cop writing speeding tickets while Ted Bundy is prowling the neighborhood. They play on our consciences while the real crooks slide on by.
Here in Utah we experienced a reduction in Wasatch Front pollution due to the cleaner late model cars. So what did the State do? They allowed the polluting industries to increase their emissions, thus returning to air to the maximum sate of pollution that they can get away with.
The EPA allows big polluters to avoid improving their emissions through cheapcrap scams like when Dow buys up a thousand pre-1975 cars and junks them and scraps them. Dow now gets to avoid expensive pollution reduction costs. And some EPA officials get a nice fat retirement job as a reward.
The EPA's going after bike pollution is like a cop writing speeding tickets while Ted Bundy is prowling the neighborhood. They play on our consciences while the real crooks slide on by.
Joined
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2,752 Posts
Re: Another reason why I shouldn't renew my membership.
Helmet OK .. I was in a hurry on my way to school. I bet I make more than you since you only have piddly ass BS degree in CS. I on the other hand have an engineering degree, MBA, and working on a MS in CS. CS is the subject us engineer used as electives to inflate our GPA.
Helmet OK .. I was in a hurry on my way to school. I bet I make more than you since you only have piddly ass BS degree in CS. I on the other hand have an engineering degree, MBA, and working on a MS in CS. CS is the subject us engineer used as electives to inflate our GPA.
Actually, it seems like most of us here DO mostly agree with you on this. I stated that I personally like the sound of loud pipes, but I recognize that there is a time and place (eg race track) where they are appropriate and many times and places where they are not (eg early Sunday morning in a populated area).
Currently, my Ducati is used only for racing and track days, and is not licensed/insured for street use, but if/when I decide to put it back on the street, I will have to find a way to quiet it down to a more reasonable level -- hopefully by using a different silencer with the existing race pipe.
I would like to see the aftermarket give more attention to producing effective aftermarket systems that produce good power with reasonable sound levels. If the aftermarket industry does not do so, or more specifically, if we as consumers do not demand and choose such products, I fear that the end result will be legislation that prohibits or greatly restricts replacement of such components.
Currently, my Ducati is used only for racing and track days, and is not licensed/insured for street use, but if/when I decide to put it back on the street, I will have to find a way to quiet it down to a more reasonable level -- hopefully by using a different silencer with the existing race pipe.
I would like to see the aftermarket give more attention to producing effective aftermarket systems that produce good power with reasonable sound levels. If the aftermarket industry does not do so, or more specifically, if we as consumers do not demand and choose such products, I fear that the end result will be legislation that prohibits or greatly restricts replacement of such components.
Joined
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2,752 Posts
Excellent Post
I apologize for my spelling and writing. I guess I was pointing out a different path the AMA could take. You right when you say. "I like to make the point that people who are less intelligent and/or members of a lower SES (than myself), are often tremendously more worthy human beings (than myself). " Perhaps I was wrong to say trailer trash but one of the problems a motorcyclist has to battle is the perception by the general public that motorcyclists are less intelligent and are not law abiding folks. The AMA should project a clean and responsible image. One way would to depict motorcycles as a clean and efficient alternative to cars. Another way would be to depict motorcyclist as responsible and law abiding. To me battling helmet laws and clean air standards sends the wrong message
I apologize for my spelling and writing. I guess I was pointing out a different path the AMA could take. You right when you say. "I like to make the point that people who are less intelligent and/or members of a lower SES (than myself), are often tremendously more worthy human beings (than myself). " Perhaps I was wrong to say trailer trash but one of the problems a motorcyclist has to battle is the perception by the general public that motorcyclists are less intelligent and are not law abiding folks. The AMA should project a clean and responsible image. One way would to depict motorcycles as a clean and efficient alternative to cars. Another way would be to depict motorcyclist as responsible and law abiding. To me battling helmet laws and clean air standards sends the wrong message
Joined
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2,752 Posts
The current leader of the EPA would say you are wrong.
Earth to SeraSuzy. We live in a republic, which sometimes changes leadership every 4 years. The current leader of the EPA, Christie Whitman, is a former Republican governor of the state of NJ. She is not for putting us all on buses. Get Real there is no conspiracy. There is a genuine desire to clean up the environment not to target motorcyclist.
http://www.epa.gov/adminweb/admin-message.htm
Earth to SeraSuzy. We live in a republic, which sometimes changes leadership every 4 years. The current leader of the EPA, Christie Whitman, is a former Republican governor of the state of NJ. She is not for putting us all on buses. Get Real there is no conspiracy. There is a genuine desire to clean up the environment not to target motorcyclist.
http://www.epa.gov/adminweb/admin-message.htm
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