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Anti-Discr. Heathl Ins. Bill in Senate

11973 Views 75 Replies 16 Participants Last post by KPaulCook, Nov 16, 2003

F451

Discussion Starter · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

Finally! All who are sitting-on-the-fence...jump off and get going because the success of this bill makes a huge difference to motorcyclists.

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Abe_Froman

· #2 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

"Americans pay enough for their health insurance that they should receive the same coverage and benefits whether they break their arm skiing or from falling down the back stairs."-----Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine)

So, the Lords are able to tell when the Serfs do and do not pay enough for something, and as a result use government power to coerce companies into conducting their business to her satisfaction? Boy this woman must be not only an unequalled economic and actuarial genius but psychic. Up until now I could've sworn that only the free market was truly able to determine when we do and do not pay enough for something.

True freedom has a cost. Unfortunately very few of us are willing to pay it anymore.

WVrider

· #3 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

Point One: There is no free market for insurance. It is highly regulated to favor profit for the insurers. They should not be able to pry into citizens private lives and social engineer us through health insurance premiums.

Point two: No one really can demonstrate causal connection between most "risk" and "health." If some drunk may hit me on my bike does than mean I am less "healthy" than the overweight, inactive booze hound driving a buick?

longride

· #4 · Nov 12, 2003

Why the change?

The people that cheer on helmet laws should be absolutely giddy over insurance discrimination laws. That's what we all want, right? Safety and low rates are the keys to a happy life aren't they? Why should I pay for some idiot on a snowmobile that gets hurt? Why should my rates go up because a skier eats a tree? And if some moron is going to ride a motorcycle and get hurt, why is that MY problem? Ban em all I say! Get in your car with the 5 star rating and wear your seatbelt. Lets give the corrupt and morally bankrupt insurance industry even MORE reasons not to pay up. Like they don't have enough excuses. The author who wants us to "put your two bits in" should be on the side of the insurance people, judging by past posts. He certainly made clear that we shouldn't pay for people's right to choose. I wonder why he is so concerned about this? Since he has voiced his distaste of the AMA more than once, why even post anything from them? Did he become a mouthpiece for the AMA suddenly? Must be difficult to talk out your mouth and butt at the same time, but I guess some people make it an art form. Just remember that the same people you want to stick it the "them" are gonna stick it to YOU. Think about it.

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45324

· #5 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

I think the real problem here is that the loophole wasn't clear. There is absolutely nothing wrong with charging higher premiums from people who engage in riskier activities; nobody complains about higher life insurance premiums for smokers, right? If there's a higher chance that you'll hurt yourself and cost the insurance company more money, you should be paying more for insurance. What's bad is when someone THINKS he's covered, highsides it on the highway and runs up a 6-figure hospital bill, only to be denied coverage for something he thought was covered. That's what's morally reprehensible about the insurance industry- they'll take your premiums even if they have no intention of covering you. Charging more of everybody because some people engage in risky activities is socialism, pure and simple. That's not how we do it here in the U.S. Go to Canada if you want government-sponsored health care for all.

Pacer

· #6 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

I could never go to Canada, the riding season is too short.

pushrod

· #7 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

There is little chance the insurance industry will lose money by this.

As they do with any other issue, they determine their risk and either charge a premium that covers them, or they choose not to provide the coverage.

Case in point here in Florida, the Insurance Commissioner passed an edict that said insurance companies must cover damage causd by hurricanes, and they can't discriminate based on location, building character, yada, yada, yada.

The result? It's damn near impossible to get coverage, since most companies have either pulled out, or they are not writing new policies.

And Longride, how 'bout you holster the flamethrower when someone posts information that has import to the M/C world? Jeez. It isn't like you're not in a target-rich environment.

Abe_Froman

· #8 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

OK, how about they just refuse to insure you? Then they can't tell you what to do.

Health insurance is a voluntary contract subject to predetermined conditions by both the insured and the insurer. Funny how companies that enter into voluntary agreements with consumers are accused of social engineering, yet government can actually do said engineering by force of law and threat of punishment and it is OK.

mad1

· #9 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

Health "Insurance" is just an effect of an out-of-control healthcare system, with unregulated costs and minimal government intervention. It is voluntary for a company to insure someone but realistically speaking, it is essential for a normal person to get and pay for health insurance.

3655

· #10 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

I sent the default email on the AMA website. I personally think it's bullsh!t that an insurance provider would deny coverage to those who engage in 'risky' behavior. If they are going charge a higher premium for those who do, how will the insurance company determine that rate? What if I ride my motorcycle to work everyday as a scuba instructor? Does that mean my insurance would be so high that I need to find a new line of work, or a new mode of transportation? Some of the idiots who post here would say that is my choice and I could just not have insurance. Well as anyone who has ever been injured can tell you, that isn't a good idea. The government does all kinds of stupid crap every day with the law, at least this one will ensure equal coverage for those who actually have insurance. Don't even get me started on the people without any insurance or money (and illegal immigrants) who cost us ALL when they get injured and the bill is picked up by the gov't.

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4940

· #11 · Nov 12, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

I know that I've used this H. L. Mencken quote before, but it bears repeating.

"The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic."

Why is it that people can't get it through their heads that if you belly up to the trough when the government doles out something you want, you automatically lose the moral high ground when it comes time to ***** about the government squandering the money they take from you at gun point. VWW

longride

· #12 · Nov 13, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

Sorry, the flamethrower comes out for staunch supporters of insurance discrimination and known AMA bashers like KPaul. I "dislike highly" people that talk out of two sides of their face. I just wanted to know why a person that has such low regard for the AMA and all they do, and comes up with ideas of how the insurance industry shouldn't have to pay for injuries, should worry about this issue. Either you are part of the solution or part of the problem. The idiot that wrote this in (not the staff that posted this) is part of the problem. I just pointed it out.

Abe_Froman

· #13 · Nov 13, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

Amen.

If more Americans would take the moral high ground into the voting booth we wouldn't have so much to ***** about either.

KPaulCook

· #14 · Nov 13, 2003

Longride you are such an extremist.

[*]Point 1. "Since he has voiced his distaste of the AMA more than once, why even post anything from them?"

As a AMA member I disagree with the AMA stance on opposing helmet laws. I agree with them on this however

[*]Point 2. "He certainly made clear that we shouldn't pay for people's right to choose"

If a person wears proper safety gear i.e. full face helmet, jacket, boots, and pants then he has taken reasonable precautions. However, if you wear flip flops, t-shirt, and no helmet I think you haven't taken reasonable precautions and thus face the consequences

KPaulCook

· #15 · Nov 13, 2003

As usual longride is wrong about me. Why I sometimes diagree with the AMA

I only bash the AMA on their vocal opposition of helmet laws. I think it is a waste of valuable political capital. The AMA effort should be spent on efforts like this, public land use, and training etc. I am still am an AMA member. If you doubt the value of riding with a helmet , read the story in the latest AMA Motorcyclist about the guy who didn't wear his helmet when he was riding his bike around the block.

rock06r

· #16 · Nov 13, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

In other words, what you are saying is that insurance companies only provide insurance when they make money hand over fist, right? The perception in Florida is that because of all the damage from hurricanes the insurance companies paid more than they took in. However, I like to point out that the federal government (aka you and me and everyone else) plus local and state government provided 10's of billions of $$ in aid (i.e. to pay the money that insurance companies should have paid). And let me point out this: it's not like hurricanes SUDDENLY appeared in Florida ...?! They've always been there, and always will. Just now the insurance companies have to pay out an amount that comes close to PARITY... something that CEO's that get paid million dollar salaries could not possibly fathom.

seruzawa

· #17 · Nov 13, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

I have to disagree with you on that. Costs are out of control because modern medicine is a virtual monopoly. It is in fact very much protected by the Federal and State govts. It is highly subsidized by the govt and those subsidies are highly regulated. The Fed govt actually pays doctors to hook the elderly up to electric shock machines. It is the farthest thing from a free market.

When medicare was originally being debated some people were saying that govt subsidies for health care would only increase the cost of healthcare. If people were paying an average of $25 per visit a $25-per-visit subsidiy would result in a new cost level of $50 per visit. Those people were right. We now pay more than ever out-of-pocket plus we pay huge taxes to feed the allopathic beast.

rock06r

· #18 · Nov 13, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

What are you, an insurance salesman? Don't kid yourself. Insurance companies know they have us by the b$lls, and they charge accordingly. During this past recession did you hear about any insurance companies going kaputt? H$ll no, they merged and got bigger!

seruzawa

· #19 · Nov 13, 2003

No time to waste longride.

The govt is going to help us again. Your time would be better spent looking for a new place to hide your wallet.

tonyharrah

· #20 · Nov 13, 2003

Re: Anti-Discrimination Heathly Insurance Bill in Senate

Also, doctors (and hospitals even) now must pay ever-increasing malpractice insurance (funny how the system feeds itself) to protect themselves from frivolous law suits. I'm sure some of these suits are legitimate, but I'm also bet most are not. It's kinda like the new lottery.

-Tony

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