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What in the hell is "fundung?" Some sort of SoCal perversion?



Aprilia is what Ducati could be if the latter hadn't sold out to the "tradition" crowd; I watch in fascination as 996 riders "convert" to the Mille (or Mille R).



On the downside, trying to out-spend Honda in engine development is likely to frustrate the much smaller Aprilia. But thank God for the upstart Italians...



 

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On the move....

Well it seems that Aprilia is keeping the italian motorcycling industry alive and well, since Ducati's once-Gods-now-old bikes are in need of re-vamping. With Aprilia's purchase of Moto Guzzi, it'd be nice to pick up Bimota on the way and expand their superbike market. WE WANT VALENTINO BACK!
 

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In order for Aprilia to be competetive...

...i believe they will have to go with an ultra over-square multi-cylinder engine. ultra as in Formula 1 specs. i wouldn't be surprised to see a desmo V-8 or V-6, since a desmo won't have to worry about valve float and wouldn't need pneumatic valve closers at the astronomical revs they will have to turn, a feature that could add weight and complexity - just what they cannot afford an extra ounce of. Absolutely no chance of seeing a V-Twin IMO, since i am sure that the only reason they dominate WSB now is the 25% displacement advantage over the multi's(not meaning to start a flame)
 

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Re: In order for Aprilia to be competetive...

"no chance of seeing a V-Twin"

No offense, but good riddance. Man, let WSB be a twins and fours territory -- much closer to reality, as it should be, while GP's can be a nice testing ground for truly crazy stuff. Rotary would be awesome. No 8's I'm afraid. Aren't the new 4 strokes limited to 6 cylinders?
 

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996 riders converting to the Mille??? Sorry, but that is just a bit off the mark. I admire Aprilia's work and admit that the Mille is a truly excellent machine. But after riding them all I decided to buy a 2000 model 996 SPS (Euro specs only, folks!). This machine is unbelievable and the Duck experience is still just totally unique!!! Don't believe the figures! Go ride 'em!



 

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I to belive that they will have to use 4-6 cylinders. They Ducatis and other v-twin in WSBK are successfull due in part to the displacement advantage given in WSBK and AMA. If they were restricted to 750cc I don't believe you would see any!



With that in mind it would be nice to see a Duck and the new GSXR 1000 go at it.
 

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It's closer than you think.....

I just had a friend of mine trade in a 99' 996 on an Aprilia Mille R. He only had 3700 miles on the 996 and I don't even consider that many miles as broken in. He didn't hate the 996, he just liked the Mille better. They're both nice bikes and about in the same price range. I hope you enjoy your SPS, it should be sweet.
 

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This whole GP thing is ludicrous. Making a displacement limit and bringing in 4 strokes is asking for huge costs. You want cool racing and big-but-not-moonshot-costs? Try this one on for size: run what you brung. Any engine is OK. Absolutely anything.



Now, I know people are going to say "They'll build 1000hp death machines!" Well, they would if they had a way to put it to the ground. In F1 and Indy, such a beast is possible because of the gigantic wings and tires they have. On a bike, you are pretty much limited to around 200hp.



With 1000cc, they will get 200hp and spend a king's ransom for it. With an open engine potential, they might make a 750 two stroke with 200 hp or a 1500 Vtwin or a 1200 V6. either way, they wouldn't be needing electromechanical valves, 18,000rpm and $50 million a year in engine money.



Trying to conatin cost by containing engine size NEVER works. It does the opposite and in moto GP, it could result in costs that kill the series.
 

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Re: "Open" GP class

I agree. I'd like to see the governing body loosen the reins on at least one class. Keep the 125s, 250s, and maybe even the 500s, but make a class whose rules are geared toward making a bike that can lap as fast as possible, period.

Sure, you'd need some rules, like maybe "no nitrous", "internal combustion engines only" and such. The idea would be to allow manufacturers to get really creative with the engines, chassis, aerodynamics, etc. Hopefully some of the innovations would then trickle down to street bikes.

It's a nice dream, anyway...
 

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amen. the only people converting to mille's are those who can't make the payments on their 996s!



put a stock mille on the track against a stock 996 and it's bye-bye mille. not to mention the thing is just plain u-u-ugly.
 

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Re: "Open" GP class

wait a minute - you're saying you want a motorcycle that laps as quick as possible, so why limit what kind of engine it can have? why not just give it a size and weight limit. other than that anything goes. for just a few pounds more you could double the present grand prix displacement. how about a 1000cc 2stroke. there'd be nothing that could catch it. not even close
 

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Re: In order for Aprilia to be competetive...

Desmo is a Ducati Patent, so no way Aprillia is able to use it.

There are 3 major Italian mc manufacturers:

Aprilia (rotax engines)

Ducati (nothing but desmos)

MV Augusta/ Cagiva (4 cylinder configs)
 

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You'll have to learn that HP says nothing about a bike. High consitent torque in combination with a certain rev range and possible gearbox and sprocket selection says all.

What you want is a massive amount of torque spread over a very wide rev range, and you won't get that out of a low cc bike.



Torque 's got everything to do with engine-efficiency and engine capacity. Just put a 20 valve 4-cilinder 996 vs a 996 desmo 8 valve and be suprised, very surprised.



 

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Its impossible to compare a stock mille to a stock 996. You should at least take the Mille R for that (because of money spend for what you get comparrison) and then it will come close, Ducati beating close.



I'd like to have them both anyway. A 996 to race and a Mille for the road. But I'll have to settle for my FZS600 and that's a corner monster anyway, so what the fook do I care.



 

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Re: In order for Aprilia to be competetive...

Ducati neither invented or has a patent on the desmo system. They own patents on so specifics of their system but that is it. The fact that anybody can build a desmo system and no one else, other than a few nut cases like Al Melling, has since the early fifties should tell you what the engine masters think of the desmo.

The guy above talking about pneumatic valves being complex and saying desmo is a better solution really should learn something about a subject before he posts on an international forum. Anybody in Formula One could run a desmo, nobody has for over forty five years. Instead, everybody runs pneumatics, do you see a pattern?

The only reason Ducati still builds the desmo is marketing, do you really think the developers want to have the poor valve control and extra friction that comes with having a rocker arm on the opening side of the valve train and 16 rocker arms in a two cylinder engine? Not to mention the bulk and reciprocating weight.

Now that Ducati has fair competition (Honda and Aprilia) their bike don't look superior anymore, do they? They still have a great team, strong riders and will do well but they haven't been dominant since the non-desmo twins showed up. They made a big noise over the winter about how getting the narrow head (basically just catching them up to everybody else on porting and valve angles) homologated was going to put them on top. Did anybody see who had the top end in Valencia?

Dr. T thought the desmo was the best system for valve control but he also thought roller bearings, built up cranks and shims were the best way to build a bottom end. If you want to talk about engineering you should really read something besides a Ducati brochure. I don't dislike Ducati, I used to own one and remember it foundly. I do get very tired of people who obviously know even less than me (I am an engineer but not a mechanical engineer) quoting marketing BS as facts.
 

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Dear Mr God

um, didn't i mention something about using desmodromic valve actutation because they can't afford an extra ounce of weight or complexity? People who respond to posts such as mine should learn to read before they comment. I hereby strip you of the title "Engineer" and crown you ""
 
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