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I like the idea for a 750R for $7K. If one

had been around when I was buying last

summer, I probably would have bought one.



$17K for the RT is just too much for what

you get. I'd *much* rather have the

FJR for 10K... er, make that 9K. ;-)



-- Michael

Okay, first ride (looks very good - solid, confidence inspriing, fun) and price - 10k base, 12.2k ABS. That's 1k more for the base, but the ABS premium dropped from 3k on last year's model to 2,200 this year. That's still high, but better than last year. ABS on the F650GS is only $500, and I don't understand why the sensors, pumps and a control unit cost 4.4 times as much on the RR, as for the GS.



Anyway, my local dealer discounts a little, so the R-R is still in the running for me. I would need a windshield, but then it would make a pretty good all-arounder, light tourer for me.



The FJR-1300 interests me, as would the replacement for the ST-1100; but Rider speculates the FJR could be as high as 14k if it makes it to the US at all, and the X-Wing probably won't be that low, with a V-6, and who knows what other tricks.



So the competition is looking like the Bandit S for $7,400, the FZ-1 for $8,500, the Hornet 900/929 for ? (maybe $8,500?), the R1150R for $9,990. That's a pretty good lineup. I'd like to see the ZRX-1200S join for party, for maybe $8,300.



Decisions, decisions...



PS - thanks for the good, quick writeup. The Rider that came yesterday said look to the July issue for info on these two bikes.

Do you really not remeber the R850R? It actually was a very competent bike, and siginifigantly cheaper than the 1100. I don't remeber how much cheaper, but you can buy a used one now for $5400-6200. New they were about $8,000, I think.



But I seriously doubt BMW would price a twin that low, and ev en if it was so cheap, they can't make enough to "snatch massive market" from the other manufacturers- even after selling 20% more bikes in the US in 2000 over 1999, BMW only sold 12,000 bikes. That's after 30 months of growing sales!



BMW is just uninterested in selling cheap bikes. There will never be a BMW described as a "bargain" or even as a good value. That's just not why people buy them.



Harley's are brilliantly marketed because they sell less bike for more money, and to it to a mass market, unlike Ducati. BMW just needs to lenghten its list of suckers.

I bought a BMW R1150GS and I consider it good value for the following reasons:



ABSII, Heated grips, Telelever, Paralever, comfort, torquey engine, fuel injection, integral luggage and hey - nothing else on the market look like it (some might say that's a good thing, but I digress).



Is it the best value? probably not. Is it the best at anything? hell no, it's just damn good at pretty much everything. I've done 700 miles days on it, had a ball riding it in the Vermont/MA twisties with the only limitation being my skill, not the bike's ground clearance, and on occassion I commute and shop for groceries. Once I get more comfy, I'll probably take it on gravel and fire roads.







Difference between BMW selling for $18,000 and HD selling for $18,000 is you get more for your money with a BMW than a HD. You get better techology, safer bikes, comfort and performance. What you do not get with a BMW is "The Harley Mystique", whatever the f*** that is. Also, a HD out the showroom door always gets a few more thousand spent on it for cosmetic purpose whereas most BMW owners spend bucks on stuff like Ohlins shocks, more lighting etc.,.



I hope that BMW will keep improving the technology and price it accordingly. Their market is not the same one targetted by the Japanese or HD and I'm quite happy for them to keep it that way.



If that makes me a sucker according to you, I can live with it.



...Jay

I really want to love BMW motorcycles. I have even owned three at various times in my riding carreer. Unfortunately, they all had incurable problems.



The first, a 1985 K100RT, was slow and smooth as silk...on the left side. It made up for that by being slow and vibrating like a paint mixer on the right side. Right side mirror was useless.



The second, a 1988 R100RS, was a fun bike, light wieght and torquey but fairly primitive. The passenger pegs vibrated so much they put my wife's feet to sleep every time we took a ride.



The third, a 1992 K75S, was smooth but had a lean mixture "POP" every time I let off the throttle. BMW checked it out several times and said everything was AOK and that the problem must be my right wrist. Hmmm, I'm 100% confident I could have fixed the problem if it were carburated instead of fuel injected. Also, the ABS light started blinking. I took it in and the diagnostics said once again everything was fine. Obviously it wasn't so I asked how much to fix it. The dealer refused to give me a price quote. They basically wanted a blank check so they could just start replacing parts until it went away.



BMWs look like nice bikes but they are built so complicated now that even the dealers can't fix em. Addtionally, DON"T believe the ABS or any other system is self diagnostic.

BMW sells R850C, R850R, R850GS in certain European markets. Their primary reason is to satisfy the displacement limits prevalent in those markets for licensing.



In North America, where displacement is king, there is little or no reason to bear the costs of marketing to sell these smaller bikes when their bigger brethern do quite nicely.



Any comparison between a Nighthawk and a R1150R is invalid - their only similarity being them being naked bikes. Everything else is worlds apart.



...Jay