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Amen!



Now, to actually make a difference, we have to get out there and let people know how we feel. Next time you (and I mean YOU) know someone who is thinking of buying an SUV, let them know what a stupid purchase it is. Unless of course, they have a need for it. Ha. Like if they need to simultaneously haul, tow and drive offroad for a large percentage of their driving, like a good 0.001% of our population.



And, whenever the subject of autos come up, let people know you think SUVs are stupid. People buy suvs to impress other people. If people realised how many other people thought they were idiots, they wouldn't buy them, especially if they had a friend or family member that thought they were stupid.



And let me just say as a native rural Minnesotan (even a hilly part) that 4wd is completely unnecessary here. We have these things called snowplows, they clear the road of snow. I have never in my life not gone somewhere in my front wheel drive car that I wasn't planning on going, not once. Nor have I gotten stuck. So throw the "unless you live in the snowy north" argument out the door, it's BS.



I lived 5 miles west of Boulder, CO for 2 winters (up fourmile canyon, for those familiar) with a 2wd Ranger. I never once didn't make it home. Sandbags, winter driving skills and momentum are all you need.



And as for the "I need to haul" argument, minivans have way more useable cargo space, but aren't manly. And what is wrong with owning more than one vehicle? I have a 1986 2wd Toyota pickup with 160k, purchased for $1200, that I only put about 5k a year on, mostly hauling around my CR250. It has a 4 cylinder, and gets between 22 and 27 mpg. Maintenance costs are near zero, and I only have minimum liability insurance on it. I also have a sedan for everyday driving. Compare my economic model with the cost of SUV ownership. No comparison, but I'm not very manly or adventrous.



TELL YOUR FRIENDS, FAMILY AND COWORKERS WHAT YOU THINK OF SUVS!!!!



 

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Wade through the posts above and find one that suggested outlawing SUVs. I couldn't find one. We're saying don't buy SUVs, here are the reasons, etc.



I don't care for SUVs, and I don't care for cruiser type motorcycles. I can't understand why anyone would buy either one of them. That being said, I have no problem with cruiser riders, all good natured ribbing aside. They are not using a very inefficient tool to get the same job done (in this case, a motorcycle fix) as the rest of us, like SUV drivers are. Cruisers don't make the roads more dangerous to those of us who don't ride cruisers.



You say the market responds to the wants of consumers. This is a vast oversimplification of the market. The market responds to advertising. Let's look at the facts: There have been suburbans, grand wagoneers, and wranglers for a long time. It used to be that only people who needed them bought them, for good reason (they suck for everyday driving). What changed in our society that caused this groundswell? Did the weather get worse? No, the opposite is happening. Did the roads get worse? No, again, the roads get better and better. Did people get more active? No, we're less and less active. Did the automakers figure out how to make outrageous profit margins by preying on people's insecurities? bingbingbing.



There wasn't a groundswell of people wanting SUVs after the oil crisis of the 70s, when the winters were worse, people were more active and snow removal equipment did a worse job than now. There was a groundswell of people wanting SUVs after the big three found out how much lemmings would pay for a pickup truck with an extra row of seats, and came up with one of the most effective ad schemes in history (the "be manly, be an individual, be adventurous, be secure, buy an suv" hype).



Just look, for example, at the Chevy Blazer slogan from a year ago "A little security in an insecure world". How are you more secure in blazer than a camry? And why is the world all the sudden insecure? Crime rates drop lower and lower, average life expectancy continues to lengthen, diseases are being cured, you live in the most powerful country in the world, but you need an SUV to be secure. Because most of the biggest dangers to you can be mitigated if you drive a vehicle with 4wd. Please.



All we're trying to do is let people know they are being had. I've personally convinced many, many people not to buy an suv after I told them what I thought. Never have I written a letter to my elected officials (and I write quite a few) asking that SUVs be outlawed.



I just gotta comment on a news blip I saw the other day on a local station here in the twin cities. It was about some high school rallying around a group of high school girls that were seriously hurt when the RAV4 they were riding in flipped over. They interviewed the parents, and they made a statment that went absolutely unchallenged by the talking heads. While discussing how careful they were to sheild their daughter from the dangerous suburban world they live in, they stated "and we even did hours of research, to make sure we bought our daugher the safest vehicle we could find" A RAV4! Hello! I'm guessing thier research was talking to a toyota salesman.



Oh yes, and more roads are the solution. Just look at Atlanta. A 10 lane wide parking lot, instead of a 2 lane wide parking lot. Much better. A mix of roads, mass transit, and planned development is the answer. More roads and nothing else equals a wider traffic jam.



 

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In the spring, summer, and fall. It's 15 degrees outside.



Oh, and nice reply. So, if you don't agree with us, you won't debate the merits, you'll just attack the messengers. Tells me you've really been thinking about the subject. Good job, keep those thoughtful posts coming.
 

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So that's the way it works? I never said automakers were stupid for producing SUVs. So you answered an argument I didn't make in order to ridicule my statements. Hmmmm.



You're right though, as I reread your post, you don't say that we wanted SUVs outlawed. I guess the statements referencing communism (at the end of your first paragraph) got me pointed in that direction. My bad.



How many 25-40k decisions do I make based on advertising? None, since the only one I've ever made that big was my house. And...If people didn't make 25-40k decisions, I guess I'd never see any vehicles advertised that were over $25k. Watch some TV. Ever see ads for neons, corollas, or sentras? Rarely. Now watch for Escalades, Suburbans, and Explorers. It's really strange these auto companies would waste their money advertising those vehicles over $25k. Their market research must be inferior to yours, you should really let them know that advertising doesn't have an effect on big financial decisions. You could really save them some money.



Oh yeah, I'm going to give you the email addresses of people I've talked to about SUVs. Sure. I'll just let them know I'm in a debate with someone about SUVs, so I gave out their email addresses, blah blah. Sure. You do, however, have a point about the internet being a grand thing for anonymous flights of fancy. There was no point in me posting that, since it's not verifyable by the person I'm debating with, unlike, say, a statement about advertising being ineffective on purchases over $25k.



So do you have a response to the points I made in my 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 8th paragraphs?



 

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Once again, no defending the SUV, no debate, just this BS about my "flawed" basis. I somehow doubt you'd think I had a "flawed" basis and that I "actually believe you know whats best for all of us" if I were ripping on those car owners for making a stupid purchase, when they could have had an SUV.



You must have some really strong arguments, so strong they are not even worth wasting on me. Please, share them with the board, someone else (maybe a non-basement dwelling conspiracy nut) might read them who is worth your time.



What is your opinion on voting? Isn't that just pushing my opinions on the rest of the country (and world), me "knowing what's best for all of us" again? How is expressing my opinion on a board different?



Hmmmm.... Big picture. Are you trying to get me to think on a broad scale? Like how my actions might effect others? Hmmmm.... How would my vehicle decisions effect others..... I could buy a fuel efficient vehicle, use less gas, less $ to the middle east, less money funding terrorists.... or I could buy an inefficient vehicle, waste gas, pollute more, send more money to terrorists...



Please, enlighten me with your big picture!



No, I'm not familiar with AB.





 

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I have asked my SUV owning friends what they like about SUVs, all I ever get is mumbled, "uh, you know, I kinda like it, it's good in bad weather, uh...I haul stuff... uh....and I think it's pretty safe... I don't really care too much about mileage...." All debateable points.



Why don't I get on people's case leaving BK? They're only negatively effecting themselves, not pulluting more & going out of their way to support terrorism, nor are they making the highways more dangerous. Plus, fast food is convienent. I eat it once in a while when I'm in a hurry. How would I know that's not what these people are doing? Just like I wouldn't rip on my brother-in-law, who owns a suburban to tow his ski boat (up his very steep unpaved driveway) and haul very large bundles of newspaper around, but drives a Taurus to go to work & run errands. So how do I know that not everyone is using their SUV for stuff like that? 50% of new vehicles sold are SUVs or light trucks. Are 50% of the people in the same (or similar) situation of my bro-in-law? Obviously not.



I love your statement "But you cant control what the heart desires". Ever think about why your heart desires an SUV? Did your heart desire an SUV in the 80's? I think your comment really reinforces my points (see above thread with Scott_650) about the effectiveness of SUV marketing. No reasons for it, I just want it. That kind of statment is the result of an extremely effective ad campaign. Kudos to the SUV ad makers, they've spun their magic on you.



Nor would I ever take any rights away from you. I have never advocated outlawing SUVs. I'm just trying to inform people about the downside of SUVs.



 

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Ok, I'm willing to admit that statement was a bit strong, but here is a more rediculous position: When you buy a joint, you're supporting terrorism. Wait, didn't I just see an ad about that on TV?



Do you belive that none of the money used to fund terrorism comes from oil? Do you think that reducing oil consumption wouldn't result in less money going to people bent on destroying our country?



You sure have a great debating mode of operation: stick to the personal attacks, do everything possible to avoid debating the points. I guess if that's all you've got, might as well stick to it.



Glad to hear you're so proud of your boat. Wasting gas sure is a thing to be proud of.



I think that a big difference between you and I is that you do not believe your actions have any effect on anyone else (or don't care that they do), and I do.



But, I could be wrong about you, which is one of the reasons why I've avoided the personal attacks. The other is that I don't need them to support my argument.

 

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I'm optimistic the SUV fad will end, too, I'm just trying to end it a bit quicker.



And yes, I've got a '78 GL1000, a '77 CB750F, a '69 (project) and '70 (parts) CB750K, a '76 XL70, and a '97 CR250. Looking for a '00 VFR. I suppose I should get some '80's honda too, then, if I had my VFR, I'd have 5 decades of red in my garage. Maybe an '83 V65 Magna, then I'd have a cruiser, a dresser, a sportbike, a dirtbike, a pit bike, a standard, and a classic. And a wife that would have to park outside.
 
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