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Re: Are you that self unaware?

"No Pdiddy, it isn't liberalism itself making independant thought and expression more difficult, it's certain groups of so-called liberals that are. When I was at Berkeley, I never supported the tactic of shutting down speakers who voiced "unpopular" opinions."

Now there's a liberal I can buy a beer for. Not afraid of the free marketplace of ideas. Good on ya.

I've never seen a conservative college student throw a pie at a liberal speaker.
 

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I believe in my decisions until the evidence proves that I'm wrong and not one second longer. That, to me, is a strength, though I guarantee that a conservative would likely call that being indecisive. A conservative will cling to a belief far longer than a liberal - that's the definition of being conservative.
 

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Re: I think he has something here

"Now, I can understand why, after 6 years as President, Dubya hasn't employed a single Dem in his administration"

Uh, maybe it's because they call him "stupid", a "loser", the "selected" President, "liar", ad nauseum.

"Hey, a-hole, why are you so divisive?"
 

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" but he is persistent."



...as in, "vegetative state."



And boy, that (banjo playing) gets funnier every time.
 

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Are you capable of thought? I mean, you're all over the map.



"I believe in my decisions until the evidence proves that I'm wrong and not one second longer. That, to me, is a strength, though I guarantee that a conservative would likely call that being indecisive."



Huh? Wha? Having a belief until it is disproved is called "reason." It's also, as you descibe it, decisive. What conservative would characterize "not one second longer" as "indecisive"?



Your posts are a bizarre collection of contradictions.



"A conservative will cling to a belief far longer than a liberal - that's the definition of being conservative."



Or, it's the definition of having an empirically or experientially correct belief. Do you arbitrarily change your beliefs just for the hell of it?
 

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Unlike the thoroughly discredited Bill O'Reilly or Anne Coulter or Newt Gingrich or Tom DeLay? Unlike the ridiculously biased Fox News?



Echo chambers? Dubya has surrounded himself with fellow believers from the PNAC, so don't even begin to talk about echo chambers. Find me someone in the inner sanctum who isn't a PNAC crackpot and I'll eat my hat. Bush dumped anyone with a dissenting opinion and is stacking every political post he can fill with his sycophantic cronies. Clinton hired Powell and kept several ranking Republicans in key positions they inhabited under Bush Sr. because they had experience and did their jobs well. Dubya doesn't have a single Dem in any major position ... the idea is unthinkable because all Dems are morons. Why would you hire morons?



Alt-left weeklies are boring? If I have to hear yet another diatribe about the 'liberal dominated media' or about reclaiming 'family values' I'm going to puke. The extreme right sounds like a broken record.



Let's face it ... any ideology has its nutbars.





 

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"Who is kpaul? I don't have any post from someone with that name."



You know how back in the day, people got clued in that liberals were full of sh!t? So "liberal" became a bad word? A lot of them, instead of ditching their stupider ideas, figured they could slide by now by calling themselves "progressives." (Way, WAY back in the day, "conservative" was a bad word, but conservatives stuck with it because they knew they had a bunch of good ideas and they jettisoned their bad ones . Liberals - er, "progressives" - still try to use it as a pejorative, but that doesn't work so well now, so they've taken to "neocon" as a scare word.)



Anyhow, sportbikepilot used to be kpaul, but he was an ass and kept ruining the threads with his nonsense, so he laid low for a while and then slithered back. Like the scorpion that stung the turtle, he can't change his nature, so the threads will all start sucking again and I'll probably let my account lapse like I was going to before he left.
 

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Re: Thanks for the rude awakening Steve (i'll shut up now)

An employer can fire someone without reason or justification and without any measure of responsibility for the welfare of the family he just impoverished on a capricious whim?

Sounds like tyranny to me.
 

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Re: Are you that self unaware?

Really? You did?

Yes, that's why the liberal in the example was good and virtuous without exception and the conservative was stupid, greedy and unethical.

Do you really believe your own bullsh*t?
 

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Re: Thanks for the rude awakening Steve (i'll shut up now)

Um, no. If you missed it, the employer has to grant unemployment, which they pay through a premium-based tax.

And some would reason that buying and riding a competitor's bike when you're in the motorcycle sales business is something to be frowned upon. Plus, we don't know what this employees history was before.

Tyranny, no. It's the private sector. The business owner can basically hire and fire who he wants, when he wants. Tyranny would be if the government made these decisions for him.
 

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Need to research before you talk

Actually 90% of the land mass of Illinois is Republican. You don't get the whole state. You get the great City of Chicago alone......with a big electric fence around it. Even most of the surrounding Burbs like Elmhurst and Naperville are Repubs, but you don't get those either. Between what a white boy like you can afford, and how well I'd bet you can fight, I'd say you should never, ever live there. Maybe Dem Daley can scam you a city job. Doubt it though. Don't include me in your Utopia.
 

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Re: Yes, that was definitely clear as mud

Please, you know damn well how the terms "conservatisim" and "liberalism" were going to be taken in this discussion. Don't try to hide behind the 17th century definition. You meant it in the most politically charged sense.

Oh, and I think you're getting the same courtesy in return. You see, I also think of myself as a "liberal" thinker, too. So I will express my opinion. No one is stopping you from posting your gross generalizations, are they?
 

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Re: Yes, that was definitely clear as mud

I'm still trying to figure out where he gets the idea that the term "competitive marketplace" has anything to do with running a BMW dealership. BMW has its guaranteed customers and the dealerships are apportioned so that they don't compete with each other.

Like an HD dealership, it's just a license to print money.
 

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Re: Are you that self unaware?

Whoah there big fellah ...

That is the whole point of putting things into a binary ... the differences get overemphasized on purpose in order to make a point. If you want to get offended by these two extreme examples, then feel free to, but I'm just going to sit here laughing from the sidelines at how quick your knee jerks and how upset you get over two fictional bike shops that I created in my head as an illustration. I'll howl when you take my comments and apply them to ALL conservatives and ALL liberals instead of just the specific story and my personal example.

Obviously you got offended by my use of the words ... so my question is this: why do simple words that have many uses and contexts give you such fits? Why do you tie yourself with conservatism so heavily that when it is portayed in a less than flattering manner you personally get upset?
 

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Re: I think he has something here

Ask pdad and some of the other folks, too. I'm not the only one swinging in this bar fight.

I made a simple comment about liberal and conservative mindsets and how they can often cause problems and several other posters extended my comments to cover Conservatism vs. Liberalism and Blue States vs. Red States and Dems vs. Republicans. I wasn't speaking politically at all, but they took the ball and ran with it because they cannot make the distinction between different uses of the words.

If they want to get offended because they take my comments about a stupid-ass bike shop owner and extrapolate it to the whole world ... that's their issue, not mine. Now that the fight is started, I'm chiming in like the rest of them. Don't like it? Don't read the posts.
 

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Or, it's the definition of having an empirically or experientially correct belief. Do you arbitrarily change your beliefs just for the hell of it?

Empirically correct belief? Whatever. Conservative means traditional and traditional isn't always correct or empirically proveable. An extreme example is the Flat Earth Society: extremely conservative, extremely traditional and extremely wrong.

In the definition below, note my highlights ...

con·ser·va·tive: Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tv)

adj.

1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.

3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.


4.

1. Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.

2. Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.

5. Conservative Of or belonging to the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.

6. Conservative Of or adhering to Conservative Judaism.

7. Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources.
 

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Re: Thanks for the rude awakening Steve (i'll shut up now)

Tyranny is when you exert force or control over someone else without their consent. An owner firing someone is tyrannical because the employee obviously doesn't consent. A government forcing him to keep said employee is just as tyrannical but in the opposite direction.

Holy ****e. Was that a few square yards of what they call 'common ground'?
 

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There is no paradox except for those folks who insist that all Republicans are the same.



Bush is just smart enough to hire really smart people to advise him. Those really smart people are the MBAs and CEOs. Those smart fellas use campaigns of 'creative disinformation' to manipulate the undereducated and prejudiced hicks into voting their way. Combine the backwards hicks with all the normal Republican voters and you had enough people to put the neocons into the White House. Powell used to call the neocons the 'crazies' when they were underlings in Reagan's administration, so even at the top ranks there are Republicans and there are Republicans, if you know what I mean.
 

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Re: Yes, that was definitely clear as mud

No ... I didn't mean it in the political sense at all. That is precisely what I didn't capitalize them, used 'liberal thinking' instead of 'liberal' when I remembered to, etc.

I didn't generalize to anything other than the story and the bike shop I know. You overreactionaries took my words and applied them to all conservatives and all liberals, applied my words in the political sense ... and got yourselves offended. You did the 'generalizing' all by your lonesomes.
 
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