Buying a Motorcycle IV - Applied Theory
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My gut feel is that if a person is worried over a few hundred dollars, the bike might be out of their price range right from the start.
A fair price is entirely relevent only to the buyer.
A bike is not an investment. It is in most cases a toy, and in some cases, a tool.
So one has to ask; can I afford this toy, or; do I need this tool?
A fair price is entirely relevent only to the buyer.
A bike is not an investment. It is in most cases a toy, and in some cases, a tool.
So one has to ask; can I afford this toy, or; do I need this tool?
Has anyone out there been to Fun Bike Center in San Diego? The place is now the biggest motorcycle dealer in North America. Even when they were small and crappy, they had the ridiculous practice of adding on average $900 to the list price of a bike for 'freight and setup'.
What idiot would pay that for a bike that you can go to any dealer and get? To pay OVER retail, especially for a Jap bike, you must be out of your mind. I would not purchase a new motorcycle unless I got a 10% or more deduction off MSRP, and paid only taxes and DMV fees in addition to that. That's the attitude you need to have when you walk in there, or they will walk all over you.
What idiot would pay that for a bike that you can go to any dealer and get? To pay OVER retail, especially for a Jap bike, you must be out of your mind. I would not purchase a new motorcycle unless I got a 10% or more deduction off MSRP, and paid only taxes and DMV fees in addition to that. That's the attitude you need to have when you walk in there, or they will walk all over you.
Re: Buying a Motorcycle IV - need to talk about the financing scams at dealers
This whole "freight and setup" thing is becomming the norm. I'm now seeing many dealers using a "DSRP" tag on the bike. At least many bikes now have price tags on them - it always ticked me off that so many bikes at dealers didn't even have prices listed...
As the majority of dealers (at least in SoCal) start charging F&S (PMI, whatever), the pricing of motorcycles will average again (at a higher $ rate), but the costs are still known, or easily found out (e.g. the $12.99 he paid for the true dealer costs). Knowing true costs and having made a decision on what bike you want - then it's just a matter of calling up dealers, seeing if they've got your year/color in stock, and then seeing if they'll take your price. People do that with cars every day; whether they are paying cash, have their own financing, or will do it via the dealer...
(rant)
The financing issue is the real issue that I find dealers to be really shady regarding. Most streetbikes (especially sportbikes) are financed; not everyone has 10K in disposable income (especially the demographic buyer of sportbikes). People are getting charged ridiculous rates, uplifted by the dealer, on top of "fees" on the bike itself. The "points" that the dealers make on the backend range from slimey to immoral. A dealer may tell some young buyer that "because this is a motorcycle, because you're young, and because you don't have (a lot of) good credit, you're going to have to pay XX% on this loan - however, we've got you financed and you can ride away today!" What they didn't disclose to the buyer is that the XX% rate the buyer is going to pay on his/her financing has actually been uplifted by YY% over the original ZZ% that the dealer got from the financing company...
Some dealers even charge "points" up front so that the buyer can actually get the loan itself! Granted, those buyers usually have poor/sub-prime credit; but the dealer is making points (profit) on the frontend, points (profit) on the backend, additional profit on their "fees" (PMI, freight, setup, DMV, etc.), as well as profit off of the motorcycle itself.
I go to many dealers of many brands in SoCal and everytime I hear a dealer complain about how they "don't make any money off of the motorcycle itself," I just want to throw-up. I think it's really disgusting... (/rant)
This whole "freight and setup" thing is becomming the norm. I'm now seeing many dealers using a "DSRP" tag on the bike. At least many bikes now have price tags on them - it always ticked me off that so many bikes at dealers didn't even have prices listed...
As the majority of dealers (at least in SoCal) start charging F&S (PMI, whatever), the pricing of motorcycles will average again (at a higher $ rate), but the costs are still known, or easily found out (e.g. the $12.99 he paid for the true dealer costs). Knowing true costs and having made a decision on what bike you want - then it's just a matter of calling up dealers, seeing if they've got your year/color in stock, and then seeing if they'll take your price. People do that with cars every day; whether they are paying cash, have their own financing, or will do it via the dealer...
(rant)
The financing issue is the real issue that I find dealers to be really shady regarding. Most streetbikes (especially sportbikes) are financed; not everyone has 10K in disposable income (especially the demographic buyer of sportbikes). People are getting charged ridiculous rates, uplifted by the dealer, on top of "fees" on the bike itself. The "points" that the dealers make on the backend range from slimey to immoral. A dealer may tell some young buyer that "because this is a motorcycle, because you're young, and because you don't have (a lot of) good credit, you're going to have to pay XX% on this loan - however, we've got you financed and you can ride away today!" What they didn't disclose to the buyer is that the XX% rate the buyer is going to pay on his/her financing has actually been uplifted by YY% over the original ZZ% that the dealer got from the financing company...
Some dealers even charge "points" up front so that the buyer can actually get the loan itself! Granted, those buyers usually have poor/sub-prime credit; but the dealer is making points (profit) on the frontend, points (profit) on the backend, additional profit on their "fees" (PMI, freight, setup, DMV, etc.), as well as profit off of the motorcycle itself.
I go to many dealers of many brands in SoCal and everytime I hear a dealer complain about how they "don't make any money off of the motorcycle itself," I just want to throw-up. I think it's really disgusting... (/rant)
OTD! OTD!
A: What state are you in?
You should be dealing with OTD prices, and OTD prices ONLY. I don't care if the dealer charges $1 for the bike and $5999 for setup, or $5999 for the bike and $1 for the setup.
A "Good" OTD price for a VStrom in CA when we bought my GFs was $6400 OTD. I think OTD price has actually gone up, as the bike ended up being more succesful (a bit of a cult bike) then originally thought. An OTD of $6700 can be had today in CA (LA Cycle Sports).
Oh, and the WeeStrom is a great bike!
A: What state are you in?
You should be dealing with OTD prices, and OTD prices ONLY. I don't care if the dealer charges $1 for the bike and $5999 for setup, or $5999 for the bike and $1 for the setup.
A "Good" OTD price for a VStrom in CA when we bought my GFs was $6400 OTD. I think OTD price has actually gone up, as the bike ended up being more succesful (a bit of a cult bike) then originally thought. An OTD of $6700 can be had today in CA (LA Cycle Sports).
Oh, and the WeeStrom is a great bike!
I agree. MSRP for an '05 VStrom is $6699. Getting it out the door for close to that is a good deal.
When I go into a dealership, I figure they know I'm not going to pay full price. I know that if it is a desireable bike, they're not letting it go out the door for less than MSRP. I usually split the difference to save time and hassles.
When I go into a dealership, I figure they know I'm not going to pay full price. I know that if it is a desireable bike, they're not letting it go out the door for less than MSRP. I usually split the difference to save time and hassles.
What services will you need, on an ongoing basis, from your dealer? Is it worth having him around? If yes, then you are paying for more than a motorcycle. You may be getting parts availability, mechanic services, accessories, advice, friendship, etc. It's hard to tell you what is fair. Each deal is unique because the needs of the buyer, relative to the dealers ability to meet those needs, vary with every deal.
In my humble opinion, you have chosen a very good motorcycle and will be getting it at a decent price. Relax and enjoy it.
In my humble opinion, you have chosen a very good motorcycle and will be getting it at a decent price. Relax and enjoy it.
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Re: OTD! OTD!
I get what you're saying. I got a call back from the "recommended" dealer that didn't have the '05s. He said he is pretty sure he'll have a couple of '06s on his November truck. I asked for an OTD price. He put me on hold and came back with about $6800, including tax, title, registration, the whole kit and caboodle...a true OTD price. I asked for him to break it down, and he said the bike itself would be about $6200 which just included their profit over invoice, no prep, no freight.
I'm not in a hurry. So, I told him I'd wait until he got one in stock.
I get what you're saying. I got a call back from the "recommended" dealer that didn't have the '05s. He said he is pretty sure he'll have a couple of '06s on his November truck. I asked for an OTD price. He put me on hold and came back with about $6800, including tax, title, registration, the whole kit and caboodle...a true OTD price. I asked for him to break it down, and he said the bike itself would be about $6200 which just included their profit over invoice, no prep, no freight.
I'm not in a hurry. So, I told him I'd wait until he got one in stock.
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27 Posts
It would be more a toy, with time, more of a tool.
I know better to see a bike, a car, anything that depreciates as an investment.
I could pay cash for the bike, but I just like to feel like I didn't overpay. I'm my grandfather's son.
Plus, there is this whole charade with my better half of making sure she believes I got the best deal on another of my "expensive hobbies." That whole thing about taking food away from my kids thing or something.
If you want to know one of the main reasons I have my qualms, it is the attitude of the dealer. They marked up the "MSRP" to make their price look even better. Things that start off deceptively don't sit well with me.
I know better to see a bike, a car, anything that depreciates as an investment.
I could pay cash for the bike, but I just like to feel like I didn't overpay. I'm my grandfather's son.
Plus, there is this whole charade with my better half of making sure she believes I got the best deal on another of my "expensive hobbies." That whole thing about taking food away from my kids thing or something.
If you want to know one of the main reasons I have my qualms, it is the attitude of the dealer. They marked up the "MSRP" to make their price look even better. Things that start off deceptively don't sit well with me.
I'm sorry. I was too lazy to do the math myself. It's not impossible to get that price, but I think you would be either very lucky or very tenacious. As I said earlier, I don't think they'll let it go out the door for less than MSRP and probably their floor is several hundred dollars above that.
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