[Easy Rider 2]

We have a new rider on here who says that getting a bike endorsement in your wonderful country requires you to take a long and complicated road test........but makes NO PROVISION for you to legally practice your skills before you do that test.

Is this correct ??
I know that your brains tend to freeze up there but I find this hard to swallow.

 

[GunsForBarbie]

I hope somebody will chime in. But until then, here is how the traffic safety act looks like:

Definition according to: TRAFFIC SAFETY ACT

1(w): "motorcycle" means a motor vehicle, other then a moped that is mounted on 2 or 3 wheels and includes those motor vehicles known in the automotive trade as motorcycles and scooters.

Operator's licence: You are required to have a Class 6 licence in order to operate a motorcycle.
(Operator Licensing and Vehicle Control Regulation, Section 26.)

Minimum driving age: You must be 16 years of age in order to operate a motorcycle.
(Operator Licensing and Vehicle Control Regulation, Section 26) Applies to either learner or operator. (Operator Licensing and Vehicle Control Regulation, Section 28 - must be minimum 16 years for operating motorcycle with Class 7.)

Learning to operate: You must be 16 years of age before you begin to learn how to operate a motorcycle. A learner must hold a Class 7, 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1 licence.
(Operator Licensing and Vehicle Control Regulation, Section 29(4).)

Learner must be supervised by someone 18 years or older (Operator Licensing and Vehicle Control Regulation, Section 29(3)), who holds a Class 6 licence that is not a Graduated Driver Licence (GDL). Supervisor must either be on the bike with the learner or in or on another motor vehicle in close proximity. (Traffic Safety Act, Section 51(f), (f.1) & (f.2).) If learner has a Class 7 learner's licence, then learner may not operate a motorcycle during night time which is defined as one hour after sunset to one hour before next sunrise (Operator Licensing and Vehicle Control Regulation, Section 32(6)).

Registration: You are required to obtain registration before you operate a motorcycle.
(Traffic Safety Act, Section 52(1)(a) states registration required for 'motor vehicles'.)

Insurance: All motorcycles must be insured before they are operated.
(Traffic Safety Act, Section 54(1)(a) states insurance required for 'motor vehicles'.)

source: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType41/Production/small_vehicle_booklet_final.pdf

As you may see - everything is logical. However, like I said in previous thread, to legally operate a motorcycle on the road for learning, you have to provide registered, insured bike + the "instructor" who has a valid class 6 license to accompany your on the road. And, again, you are very lucky if you have both handy.

 

[A Star Ride]

I, and I'm sure most anyone who knows anything about motorcycles would agree, 2up is NOT the way to learn. And there is no way in hell I'd get on my back seat & let a newbee take off while I coach them through operation from the pillon.

 

[Easy Rider 2]

However, like I said in previous thread, to legally operate a motorcycle on the road for learning, you have to provide registered, insured bike + the "instructor" who has a valid class 6 license to accompany your on the road. And, again, you are very lucky if you have both handy.

No, you didn't.

You only said PART of that. You implied that it was impossible to legally get your bike registered before you are a fully licensed rider and that is simply NOT the case.

Your problem is not complicated; you just need to find a riding buddy.

That may take a little time and effort but it is not impossible.
I would volunteer in a second......except that I am too far away and don't have the proper license to meet the letter of the law in your area.

 

[cono_sur]

I believe this is true. It is not legally required that you officially practice before taking the road test.

I'm pretty sure it's true for passenger vehicle licenses as well.

But, who would pass without practicing first?

 

[Easy Rider 2]

But, who would pass without practicing first?

Yep. That WAS the whole point of the discussion........in another thread.

 

[cono_sur]

Yep. That WAS the whole point of the discussion........in another thread.

Therefore, does there explicitly need to be a law that says "you must practice first before going for road test". I suppose, for the safety of other motorists, there should be! But at the same time, it seems highly unlikely that someone would go for any test (for any subject matter, really) without practicing/studying first. It's sort of like an unwritten pre-requisite.

 

[Easy Rider 2]

Therefore, does there explicitly need to be a law that says "you must practice first before going for road test".

I think we determined that the original poster's only real problem is that he doesn't have another rider to help him practice with his permit ......legally.

The point was that the laws should not make it impossible for you to practice legally and it appears that it only makes it somewhat inconvenient and not impossible.......for most people.

 

[JRockZ]

Hi there. I'm not entirely sure what the laws are like in all provinces(they tend to vary with things like this) but I'm currently living in Nova Scotia, and here we aren't legally allowed to practice riding without a license. In order to get our license we have to attend 2 sessions with an instructor both in a classroom and out on a bike, then we take our test. At least this is my understanding of the situation, I actually just started looking into it recently as I plan on starting to ride next spring/summer.

 

[T1200]

We have a new rider on here who says that getting a bike endorsement in your wonderful country requires you to take a long and complicated road test........but makes NO PROVISION for you to legally practice your skills before you do that test.

Is this correct ??
I know that your brains tend to freeze up there but I find this hard to swallow.

This is the process in Ontario:

1.Take a written test to get your M1 licence. This allows you to ride only in daylight hours on roads with speed limits up to 80 km/hr ( 50mph ). Zero alcohol. No passengers.
2. You then have to wait 60 days to take your M2 - this is a basic cones in a parking lot test. Your M1 expires after 90 days
3. You can ride with your M2 but you must get your M-licence ( full road test ) within 5 years or you have to go get your M2 again.

So the 90 days with your M1 is your practice time. Most people take a course and run the M2 test at the end of it.
The messed up part is anyone can write the M1 then have 3 months to ride around on their new Hyabusa for 90 days without having taken a single lesson

When I'm in charge of the world you will have to write the test, take the weekend course ( in class and on bike ) and pass the parking lot test before you can ride off.

 

[Areum Seulki]

That is only partially correct. We have graduated licensing, meaning we must get an M1 (learners permit, obtainable with a "written" test). At this point you CAN legally practice, but it is virtually impossible to get on a bike (incredibly prohibitively high insurance, and cannot get a bike registered for a plate). Between 60 and 90 days we can upgrade to an M2 license, which allows us to drive as much as we want and have the same rules as a fully licensed driver. This is when we do the motorcycle safety course and actually learn how to drive. So while technically you can take the course anytime in the 90 day window, you can’t really practice between the M1 test and the course and cannot really do any driving outside the course until at least 60 days after obtaining the M1. So while technically you can ride with an M1, in reality you really can not. I timed my M1 so that my M2 course concluded at the end of the 60 days, then got a bike, insurance and plates the next week and was riding my own bike 63 days after I obtained my M1 and 3 days after my M2 test.

 

[gunsmoker]

Thanks for the updated info!

I see that there's at least one company that will issue a motorcycle insurance policy for people with an M1 learners-- but it's ridiculously expensive. Example: For an adult over age 25 whose motorcycle displacement is over 750 cc,
it costs about $500 per month!!

Motorcycle Insurance in Ontario & an m1 Licence | Mitch Insurance

M1 riders usually get their M2 right away, but the pandemic is causing delays, leading to very high insurance costs for new riders.

mitchinsurance.com

 

[gunsmoker]

For a young person, age 16 to 20, interested in getting into motorcycle riding:
even if they choose a medium sized bike with a modest sized engine like a 250 it'll still cost them over 600 a month.

That's got to be a huge problem that discourages Canadians from exercising their right to travel on two wheels.

And did you say that the government will not allow you to register and get a license plate on your motorcycle if you (the owner) only have an M1 learners permit? That's crazy. Any vehicle that can legally be driven on at least some of the public roads, some of the time, under some conditions (*1) should be a vehicle that the government lets you register and put a plate on!

(Fn.1 No interstate highways, daylight hours only, no passengers, and ZERO alcohol in your bloodstream).

 

[Easy Rider 2]

That's got to be a huge problem that discourages Canadians from exercising their right to travel on two wheels.

The term "rights" is often mis-used these days.
There is no inherent "right" to ride or drive anything.

 

[Areum Seulki]

For a young person, age 16 to 20, interested in getting into motorcycle riding:
even if they choose a medium sized bike with a modest sized engine like a 250 it'll still cost them over 600 a month.

That's got to be a huge problem that discourages Canadians from exercising their right to travel on two wheels.

And did you say that the government will not allow you to register and get a license plate on your motorcycle if you (the owner) only have an M1 learners permit? That's crazy. Any vehicle that can legally be driven on at least some of the public roads, some of the time, under some conditions (*1) should be a vehicle that the government lets you register and put a plate on!

(Fn.1 No interstate highways, daylight hours only, no passengers, and ZERO alcohol in your bloodstream).

That is true. I had to get insurance before the dealer could pick up my plate and give me my new motorcycle.

 

[Areum Seulki]

The term "rights" is often mis-used these days.
There is no inherent "right" to ride or drive anything.

That is true in Canada, but Americans have a lot more inherent rights than we do. For an American, driving is an “earned right”, which is different from a “given right”. An earned right is said to be yours as long as you are if legal age and can pass basic safety and operational requirements. Canada is more like a private club, where the government “reserves the right to deny entry or service for any reason”🤣. That is why we often have difficulty understanding the strength of the US constitution.

 

[Easy Rider 2]

That is true in Canada, but Americans have a lot more inherent rights than we do.

Like I said, apparently you don't have a good understanding of what a "right" is either.

 

[gunsmoker]

I prefer this view:

"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by horse drawn carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city can prohibit or permit at will, but a common Right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Thompson vs. Smith, Virginia Supreme Court, 1930.
​

 

[Easy Rider 2]

I prefer this view:

"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by horse drawn carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city can prohibit or permit at will, but a common Right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Thompson vs. Smith, Virginia Supreme Court, 1930.
​

IF.......that was a quote from a ruling, as opposed to an argument during the case or a dissenting opinion, it certainly didn't last long.

While a CITY still can not restrict driving, States and the Federal Govt. certainly can.
Quotes out of context are often misleading........sometimes on purpose.

 

[gunsmoker]

"sometimes on purpose" ??

What are you accusing me of?
Are you in the habit of calling members of this forum liars?

What kind of troublemaker are you anyway?

Is there a second moderator around here?
Quit harassing me --just do your ^%* job.