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Choose Your Weapon: Best of the Best, 2006

41973 Views 55 Replies 30 Participants Last post by  Ole1
w000 first I hope
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Nice read but... one question... is this the buttonwillow I'm thinking of? the one where even a 125 at a relaxed pace will do near a 2:00 min lap time??

and what laptime did I see in there... a 2:58 !! and a 3:00 something?? jeeeez if your gonna go to a track at least push them some!! no wonder the SV could keep up so well.

I hope your all embarased ;)

thanks for the read though.
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You guys are panies, my dad is 68 and rides an aprilia RS250 even on long 8 hour rides.
It all depends on what you like, some of us like to have to work to go fast, row through the gears keep it spun up in the powerband, etc.

Try riding a 125 GP bike, it's FUN!
I have an old Honda 600F4 (10 - 15+ HP down to the latest and greatest, I would guess) and an '04 1000RR.

I preferred the bigger bike when the road was open - but you just can't use it otherwise, in any way, shape or form. You can safely use the top of the power band in 1st and sometimes in 2nd if you're hustling and the road is clear and in good condition. The torque is terrific and that bike in particular is a pleasure to ride just based on the fact that it feels like it was machined out of a single piece of aluminum - but it is a little harder to turn in, and at even a brisk street pace in the mountains with no, um interference, from the authorities, it's not as involving.

I actually found that I rode my 600 more frequently (it's in storage I guess that's a bit inconsistent...I'm a hypocrite, so what?) because you could push it - just a little bit - and not be faced with impending doom. And you had enough time to get it back, usually, if your judgment perhaps was occasionally overwhelmed by you enthusiasm. The 1000 requires...your full attention and even the allegedly mild 1000RR is not to be trifled with.

I'm guessing that 750 is pretty darn sweet, overall. It's not all about what's faster, otherwise, most people that are buying Porsches and Ferraris would instead look to the generally superior Corvettes. And Ducati would never sell a bike. There's an experience out there, though purchased at the cost of a little speed, that is not to be completely rejected.

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After reading the insert about the SV650 all this test has done for me is demonstrate how idiotic it is to spend thousands more for a narrowly focused torture rack that's hardly any faster.

I wish all these tests were done on the same track each year on the same tires with proper times kept. I think we'd find that beneath all the hype the new bikes aren't really getting around any faster than they did in the 90's.

We were running a reverse configuration with a longer overall length than the configuration the AFM and CCS use, and only Ole -- who has never raced and only done a few trackdays -- reported his laptimes.

In the AFM Formula III class in March, AFM expert Steve Magri finished on the podium with a 2:02 laptime. If you've raced a 125, you'll know he wasn't running a "relaxed" pace.

By the way, a good rider on an RS125 will have better lap times than most people running an SV650 at a track day. In fact, race laptimes for 650 Twins riders were about the same as the RS125s. Oh, and laptimes for 600 racers are also about the same as those of the 1000cc guys, and only 10 seconds a lap faster than the 125 two-strokes. The first-place FIII finisher would finish aobut mid-pack in Open Production, too.

Jeff Tigert's best time in 600 rpoduction was only .2 of a second slower than Dave Stanton's best time on his GSXR-1000, incidentally. Both riders have a level of skill and bravery that is inconcievable to most normal people.

In fact, I wonder if anybody who has only done track days and never raced (I don't know if you've raced or not) could keep up with a racer on an RS125 on any machine, no matter how powerful or good handling. Michael Corbino did a 2:09 on a 250 Ninja, and I would like to see the average track day guy try to keep up with him. That would be amusing.

Check out the race times yourself at If you had done so before, you could have saved yourself some embarrassment, too...

By the way, Lee was turning about 2:20 and I was able to get under 2:30, although we didn't take many lap times because we had tire issues in the heat and didn't want to push it much.

Anyway, we appreciate your comments and your subscription. Thanks very much for reading and posting!

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Re: KP, where you been?

That's the problem for me. If I knew they weren't going to replace the 955i then I'd try to grab one (Red) now, even though the prices new(still available) and used are holding pretty good.

The new Connie and a few others will get a good look when they come out. Great time to be a motorcycle enthusiast.
Re: Ahem...

I was mostly giving you a hard time heh sorry.

But yea I race a rs125 which is why I knew the lap time for it. But that time was for the setup WERA ran so it sounds like it was different because most were running in the 1:54 range so a 2:02 was at a relaxed pace.

I just didn't realize it was a different config.

2:20 sounds quite good for a track day with that config! Good to see there was some pushing of the bikes heh. I didn't mean go out and crash but I was thinking a 3:00 min lap? that's seems way slow and thought it might be a config difference.

I mean my 2nd time ever on a track (willowsprings), 1st time on that track, 1st time ever riding a RS125 (only did one track day on an EX500 before) it was easy to get with in 20 or 30 seconds of the winning RS125 time. Now the last 5 seconds has been hard!

Thanks for the reply though and clarification!
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I'm pretty confident the dodgy low end is due to lean EPA settings and can be fixed. I have a '97 TL1000S now that had the mother of all low end stumbles. It runs super now after some FI fiddling.

Also, Cycle World recently had an article on the R6 and how it responded strongly to FI remapping.

All the OEMs fuel lean at low end to meet EPA regs. They tend to be pretty correct to rich on the top end.

So, to answer your question, yes, I am confident enough that the bike can be improved to buy one. The exhaust pipe bothers me more than an easily remedied FI issue :)
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So... I'm bummed there are no dyno charts for comparison between the 750 and the 675. Everyone talks about the awesome torque of the 675, but does it actually make more torque than the 750 at any rpm over, say, 6000?

Just wondering,

With my new-found awareness about things, I can't help wondering how the Burgman 400 would have fared in this comparison.
You got it right. This spring I rode my new GSXR1000 in the Black Hills. My buddy brought his new GSXR600. After a couple of days we swapped rides. Riding twisty roads all day, I'll take the 1000. Call me lazy. By the way, buddy traded his 600 on a 1000.
Re: Ahem...

... and I was REALLLY taking it easy since I needed to be on a plane to Quebec for a Rally Race on Wednesday morning after the trackday on Tuesday ....

Going back to BW on the 7th ... I'll see what I can do about starting to get my laptimes down a bit ....

Thanks for the humor Gluge !
The 750 makes more torque then the 675 at all RPMs.

That's looking at MO's dyno of the 2000 GSX-R 750 though.. It's possible the new one has less torque at RPM but more likely IMO that it has more torque everywhere then the old one.

I gotta ride a 675.. I'm guessing it just feels like it has a lot of torque due to the triple being so smooth at low RPM and very good EFI mapping at small & medium throttle openings. Quality mapping makes any bike feel a lot more torquey IMO.
Hey Ole, which would you track with?

If your hawk gt were brought up to current sv power, and with suspension to match, which would you rather ride on the road or track?
Re: Hey Ole, which would you track with?

Same power and suspension ?

Easy choice ... the Hawk

- IT IS TINY (like the 675).

That has always been on the project list - getting the Hawk "up to track spec", but without huge amounts of money and questionable reliability, I don't see the hawk ever approaching the HP and TQ that you can get from a stock SV .... and besides, I've got the 675 for track days !
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