if it was a reallocation of the cost only, it would probably would cause a shock at first but hopefully our taxes would go down accordingly (not likely eh?) Which would focus people's attention more properly at the consumption of gas. However, right now any additional rise in the price of oil affects the economy like a tax increase but unforntunately revenue goes doesn't go to the Treasury of the U.S. to pay off the massive National debt W has ran up.... i.e it goes to Saudia Arabia, more likely Venezuela , etc.
Common Sense Motorbiking. Where Is It?
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WeeStrom 650 is EXACTLY That bike...
Apart from having a chain drive rather than a belt or shaft, a WeeStrom totally wipes the floor with the Pacific Coast.
A PC800 cost $8700 in 1998. That would be about $10,300 in today's dollars.
A WeeStrom 650 cost ~$6500 sans ABS, $7000 with ABS. So $3k cheaper. Its vastly lighter (>150 lbs), has great weather protection, longer range, a bigger tank, much more agile, more powerful, even more comfortable, etc etc etc.
Put a 3-bag set on it from Givi and a WeeStrom is about 2/3rds of a Goldwing in cargo capacity too!
So quit complaining that the bike you want "doesn't exist". IT does, Suzuki makes it, go buy one and have a nice day.
Apart from having a chain drive rather than a belt or shaft, a WeeStrom totally wipes the floor with the Pacific Coast.
A PC800 cost $8700 in 1998. That would be about $10,300 in today's dollars.
A WeeStrom 650 cost ~$6500 sans ABS, $7000 with ABS. So $3k cheaper. Its vastly lighter (>150 lbs), has great weather protection, longer range, a bigger tank, much more agile, more powerful, even more comfortable, etc etc etc.
Put a 3-bag set on it from Givi and a WeeStrom is about 2/3rds of a Goldwing in cargo capacity too!
So quit complaining that the bike you want "doesn't exist". IT does, Suzuki makes it, go buy one and have a nice day.
Re: INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT report the True Cost of Gas
I dont know who this group is but as I began to read,it became apparent the study has serious flaws. While I agree that there are some subsidys that are paid for by the public which makes our effective per gallon c ost higher,this study includes many "hidden costs"which are not really directly related to the oil industry. Many of them are costs that would have to be borne if we powered our cars by water. Also the study ignores the obvious fact that oil is used for many things other than pump gas. All in all a very seriously flawed paper...I wouldnt quote it amongst informed people. It's obvious the authors had a conclusion in mind when they started and used data loosely to make their point. if one of my employees wrote a paper this flawed,they wouldn't be employed much longer.
I dont know who this group is but as I began to read,it became apparent the study has serious flaws. While I agree that there are some subsidys that are paid for by the public which makes our effective per gallon c ost higher,this study includes many "hidden costs"which are not really directly related to the oil industry. Many of them are costs that would have to be borne if we powered our cars by water. Also the study ignores the obvious fact that oil is used for many things other than pump gas. All in all a very seriously flawed paper...I wouldnt quote it amongst informed people. It's obvious the authors had a conclusion in mind when they started and used data loosely to make their point. if one of my employees wrote a paper this flawed,they wouldn't be employed much longer.
Nice - I had no idea there was such a thing as the Deauville, but that -is- the model that really is missing in the US lineup.
I was disappointed in the 2008 Connie too unfortunately - I mean, hey, its a nice bike in so many ways, but the high mass and the oversize capacity just detract so much from it. Something with fewer gadgets and more manageable mass would've been cool and more in that Connie tradition.
And yeah, for non-poseur use 70hp is ample - was doing 130mph down the freeway the other day on my 70hp bike and I was still 1000rpm off redline, hadn't fully opened my throttle and was blowing past traffic like they were standing still (before I had to, you know, slow down and deal with more traffic).
I can understand wanting more power and higher gearing, I just can't construct an argument for actually needing them until the rest of the traffic is regularly doing 120mph+.
I was disappointed in the 2008 Connie too unfortunately - I mean, hey, its a nice bike in so many ways, but the high mass and the oversize capacity just detract so much from it. Something with fewer gadgets and more manageable mass would've been cool and more in that Connie tradition.
And yeah, for non-poseur use 70hp is ample - was doing 130mph down the freeway the other day on my 70hp bike and I was still 1000rpm off redline, hadn't fully opened my throttle and was blowing past traffic like they were standing still (before I had to, you know, slow down and deal with more traffic).
I can understand wanting more power and higher gearing, I just can't construct an argument for actually needing them until the rest of the traffic is regularly doing 120mph+.
Re: INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT report the True Cost of Gas
Can you give me an example of that cost?
You are probably refering the costs of roads etc. Sure the roads and infrastructure are needed by a water powered car etc. But the interstate system is a massive subsidy to the trucking industry. Rail is cheaper by far. But interstates are good for defense of the U.S. according to Eisenhower. i.e. the reason they were built. Transport tanks, land bombers etc.
I think the cost of defending Middle Eastern Oil is legit though.
Take it with a grain of salt...I say
Can you give me an example of that cost?
You are probably refering the costs of roads etc. Sure the roads and infrastructure are needed by a water powered car etc. But the interstate system is a massive subsidy to the trucking industry. Rail is cheaper by far. But interstates are good for defense of the U.S. according to Eisenhower. i.e. the reason they were built. Transport tanks, land bombers etc.
I think the cost of defending Middle Eastern Oil is legit though.
Take it with a grain of salt...I say
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10 Posts
I ride a 1982 suzuki gs650g (shaft drive) to work every night. If I was going to buy a new bike based on common sense, I would pick the 2007 Harley Sportster based on belt drive, hydraulic valve actuation, decent gas mileage, EFI,and availabilty of parts. all it needs is a centerstand and a tach.
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1,538 Posts
Need?
"Why are we being bombarded by these 150+ hp monsters that go 200 mph? Do we really need them?"
Do we really need motorcycles at all? Rolex watches, Rembrandt paintings? Do we really "need" cars?
The "don't need" argument is a slippery slope indeed.
150hp motorcycles aren't about "need" they are about "want". The manufacturers will provide excess, as long as the public rewards excess.
"Why are we being bombarded by these 150+ hp monsters that go 200 mph? Do we really need them?"
Do we really need motorcycles at all? Rolex watches, Rembrandt paintings? Do we really "need" cars?
The "don't need" argument is a slippery slope indeed.
150hp motorcycles aren't about "need" they are about "want". The manufacturers will provide excess, as long as the public rewards excess.
Buell XB12S
-50 mpg
- Adequate hp = 130 mph = fast enough for most roads
- comfortable enough to use as a commuter
- unbeatable cornering ability
- versatile - commuter, touring, and racing
- low maintenance costs (oil and tires)
- numerous dealerships across USA and Canada
- more fun than almost any other bike out there, in "a real" world situation
- not rated as a sport bike by (my) insurance companies
-50 mpg
- Adequate hp = 130 mph = fast enough for most roads
- comfortable enough to use as a commuter
- unbeatable cornering ability
- versatile - commuter, touring, and racing
- low maintenance costs (oil and tires)
- numerous dealerships across USA and Canada
- more fun than almost any other bike out there, in "a real" world situation
- not rated as a sport bike by (my) insurance companies
Look back at the thread for the Burgman 400. I brought up the subject of the PC800 and was roundly abused. I do 85-90miles commute almost every day, rain or shine. The bike did great until it dropped below 40degF. Rather than spend a couple hundred on heated hand grips, I opted for the BMW RT option for $16K. Nonetheless, the bike was a neat concept. There are some who have put well over 200K miles on them.
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3 Posts
Re: Common Sense Motorbikes are now Super-Scooters
Common sense two-wheelers were conquored by the super-scooters almost a decade ago. Contraptions like the Honda Silverwing, Reflex, Big Ruckus, and Helix (quite possibly the most sensible -- and boring -- two-wheeled vehicles on earth) have taken over the 'common sense' bike niche. Yamaha chipped in with the Bergman and the Morphous, and legions of Chinese 250cc scooters are flooding eBay daily.
With few exceptions, They get 50-70 mpg, cruise from 70-90 mph, and have radios, ABS, and (God help us) trunks like cars. THAT is what has happened to common sense motorbiking. The 1970s and 1980s bikes that used to fill that limited bill have mutated into scooters.
Common sense two-wheelers were conquored by the super-scooters almost a decade ago. Contraptions like the Honda Silverwing, Reflex, Big Ruckus, and Helix (quite possibly the most sensible -- and boring -- two-wheeled vehicles on earth) have taken over the 'common sense' bike niche. Yamaha chipped in with the Bergman and the Morphous, and legions of Chinese 250cc scooters are flooding eBay daily.
With few exceptions, They get 50-70 mpg, cruise from 70-90 mph, and have radios, ABS, and (God help us) trunks like cars. THAT is what has happened to common sense motorbiking. The 1970s and 1980s bikes that used to fill that limited bill have mutated into scooters.
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3 Posts
Re: Common Sense Motorbikes are now Super-Scooters
CORRECTION: The Bergman is a Suzuki product. Sorry, brain-fart.
CORRECTION: The Bergman is a Suzuki product. Sorry, brain-fart.
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