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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have two simple request that would make me love motorcycle.com ten times more.

First Please list measured rwhp int he reviews not measured hpr run through some equation the dyno maker thought would get it close to crank hpr. The losses can vary from bike to bike. Why do we care how much hpr is at the crank anyway? The only hpr we get is what gets though the the rear wheel. This would ensure accuracy as you can calibrate dynos so if you have 1 rwhp they all read 1 rwhpr.

(I post this after reading the dyno bit in this article - http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/hyosung-gt650-vs-suzuki-sv650-14284.html)

Second - Please weigh the bikes. This is very easy take a bathroom scale and roll the front wheel onto it, then do the same with the rear wheel then note approx how much fuel is in the tank and the two measured weights together and subtract for the fuel. This wouldn't be 100% dead on but it'd be way better than the manufacture claims.

I've weighted bikes that were claimed to weight 390 lbs wet and with no fuel they've still weighed 430 lbs. This is rediculious that the manufactures lie so much. The only bike I've had that was accurate is my 125 GP bike. Claimed was 156 lbs and it was dead on.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this. Where are you located MO? I'll bring you a scale myself. Tell me what hours are good to come. (yes I'm serious)
 

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I'm just curious: in real life, day to day riding on a motorcycle, is such a fine definition of horsepower and weight really that meaningful? If a Kawi "actually" weighs 398.2 pounds and a Suzi weighs 413.7 pounds, could you tell the difference? Could you tell the difference between 130hp and 140hp, rear wheel or crank? REALLY??? I suspect a professional rider could, but I doubt 99% of the riding public could.

I get a laugh when I read how some manufacturer "trimmed" a whopping 8.2lbs off their bike by making the frammistat out of unobtainium. Then some lard-ass gets on the bike with a bag of 20 White Castle sliders and 50lbs of leather and doubles it's weight.

I think these power, weight, and other statistics are mostly just marketing crap tossed out by the manufacturers to keep us ever unsatisfied with perfectly good bikes that aren't "the latest and greatest." I know for a fact that a good rider on an old bike will leave the lesser rider on the latest bike in the dust every time. I'm also sure that the new Concours 14 wouldn't get me 250 miles up the coast to Mom's house later today more than a few minutes earlier than the 1986 version I'll be riding. FHP will see to that.
 

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The Toad
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Don't forget.....

I'm also sure that the new Concours 14 wouldn't get me 250 miles up the coast to Mom's house later today more than a few minutes earlier than the 1986 version I'll be riding. FHP will see to that.
....to tell her , "Hi!", from all of us. I'm sure she'll be pleased.
 

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A good estimate of real-world, full-tank weight can be obtained as follows:

Find gross vehicle weight rating on the VIN plate.

Find maximum load on the tire sticker. This is how much you can add to the bike (rider and cargo), tank full, without exceeding GVWR.

Subtract the latter from the former for the motorcycle's full-tank weight.

I've been testing this method for years--do the calculation on a new bike at the dealer, compare to magazine-reported full-tank weight--and it's never been off by more than a few pounds. If MO can't weigh 'em, at least they can report a good estimate.

BTW, I see no point at all in reporting manufacturer's "claimed dry weight". It's fiction, created to compete with the fiction of other manufacturer's "dry weight". Might as well report the "lunar dry weight".
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm just curious: in real life, day to day riding on a motorcycle, is such a fine definition of horsepower and weight really that meaningful? If a Kawi "actually" weighs 398.2 pounds and a Suzi weighs 413.7 pounds, could you tell the difference? Could you tell the difference between 130hp and 140hp, rear wheel or crank? REALLY??? I suspect a professional rider could, but I doubt 99% of the riding public could.

I get a laugh when I read how some manufacturer "trimmed" a whopping 8.2lbs off their bike by making the frammistat out of unobtainium. Then some lard-ass gets on the bike with a bag of 20 White Castle sliders and 50lbs of leather and doubles it's weight.

I think these power, weight, and other statistics are mostly just marketing crap tossed out by the manufacturers to keep us ever unsatisfied with perfectly good bikes that aren't "the latest and greatest." I know for a fact that a good rider on an old bike will leave the lesser rider on the latest bike in the dust every time. I'm also sure that the new Concours 14 wouldn't get me 250 miles up the coast to Mom's house later today more than a few minutes earlier than the 1986 version I'll be riding. FHP will see to that.
True I doubt I could tell the difference between 10 lbs precisely but in general I feel much more comfortable on lighter smaller bikes and as far as my seat of pants comfort level well that can be influenced by just 10 lbs. And that will show up in my lap times.

I know I can tell the difference between my race bike full tank and my race bike near empty, it's very subtle but it's there. And yes depending on the bike I can defiantly feel 5 hpr difference.

I am no professional rider but I do win a bit of money racing and every little bit matters in racing. I don't care if 99% of the public doesn't race and still buys sportbikes.

Sportbikes are practically made for racing they're made to be as high performance as possible while still being able to be sold for street posers. The least magazines could do is report things that mater to people who actually use the bikes for their purpose. Especially when they're already measuring rwhpr they're just running it through some correcting thing which may or may not be accurate. All they need is a scale now.

They report plenty of other things that aren't useful (like claimed dry weight haha)
 

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Where is Spring Hill?

Which coast? I have an office in Spring Hill.
Mom lives, and I grew up, near Cocoa Beach. Her house is on the Indian River, and you can see the VAB at the Kennedy Space Center from her yard. I'm hoping to move back up there before too long. There are a BUNCH of riders up there, and some great roads are within range for a day trip.
 

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True I doubt I could tell the difference between 10 lbs precisely but in general I feel much more comfortable on lighter smaller bikes and as far as my seat of pants comfort level well that can be influenced by just 10 lbs. And that will show up in my lap times.

I know I can tell the difference between my race bike full tank and my race bike near empty, it's very subtle but it's there. And yes depending on the bike I can defiantly feel 5 hpr difference.

I am no professional rider but I do win a bit of money racing and every little bit matters in racing. I don't care if 99% of the public doesn't race and still buys sportbikes.

Sportbikes are practically made for racing they're made to be as high performance as possible while still being able to be sold for street posers. The least magazines could do is report things that mater to people who actually use the bikes for their purpose. Especially when they're already measuring rwhpr they're just running it through some correcting thing which may or may not be accurate. All they need is a scale now.

They report plenty of other things that aren't useful (like claimed dry weight haha)
It seems you're a rider who could acutally use that level of detail. My viewpoint is skewed, I'm an aging rider who's biggest interest these days is just riding around enjoying the scenery and being outside. My days of pulling nine or ten tenths out of a machine are over...and I'm ok with that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It seems you're a rider who could acutally use that level of detail. My viewpoint is skewed, I'm an aging rider who's biggest interest these days is just riding around enjoying the scenery and being outside. My days of pulling nine or ten tenths out of a machine are over...and I'm ok with that!
More power to you! You don't even need to be in the market for the fastest bike out there to appreciate good dyno numbers. I was shopping for a bike in the EX500 - SV650 range and found myself wishing I could get some true numbers. I ended up going with an RS250.
 

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Offensive grenades are more effective, cost wise.

As far as usefull numbers go I'd like to see fuel milage reported, not from some journo's hooligan run but from a constant loop that might aproximate the use of a commuter. I do 400 to 500 miles a week commuting so real world fuel figures effect my decision making. As much as I would like to have 3 bikes for my moods and recreation I can only afford to have one that has to do it all.

ps. But hey if you've got RPG rounds that your not doing anything with....
 

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I'd like to echo the comments in this thread that rear wheel horsepower and actual weight would be a huge improvement over the mixture of actual and manufacturer claims we get today. Manufacturer claims seem to vary from actual results by manufacturer, with some manufacturer's marketing department seeming to have a greater influence than others.
I agree that for many riders body fat is more significant than those 15 lbs you shaved off the bike with that new exhaust system, but that doesn't seem to be a good excuse not to report it for those of us in shape who push our bikes hard on the track or street on a regular basis.
Another idea, how about a chart of motorcycle performance that compares all makes and models ala the "list" that used to be included in Motorcyclist.
 

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Buy an Industrial scale and real Dyno

Kevin,
Tell the Verticalscope bosses you need a simple industrial scale and a real Dyno. 1- it's not that big of an investment when you look at it as a business expense. 2- it will give you guys something to play with between road test. 3- It will sure as h3ll make us happy knowing you guys aren't locked into the industry hype when giving data figures.
It's not a real complicated thing- operating a dyno. And if you start doing "long-term" testing on bikes you can give revised numbers with update. Just a thought from the peanut gallery.
 
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