Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit
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Guess we're not going to have a new precedent that allows people to sue manufacturers over BS advertising hype. Wouldn't that be great though? Actually being able to sue companies that lie about their products in ad copy.
Well, that's too bad. I'd like to sue Honda over the Magna transmission and Suzuki over the GSX carb problems.
I'd love to go after GM for their "longest lasting most reliable trucks" crap, too.
Black and Decker would be easy meat.
The list is endless.
Who believes ad copy anyhow?
Well, that's too bad. I'd like to sue Honda over the Magna transmission and Suzuki over the GSX carb problems.
I'd love to go after GM for their "longest lasting most reliable trucks" crap, too.
Black and Decker would be easy meat.
The list is endless.
Who believes ad copy anyhow?
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729 Posts
Sounds to me like common sense does prevail every once in a while even in legal circles. The guy who filed this suit was a dolt and deserves ignominity.
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1,754 Posts
I think one of the main issues here is how long they extended the warranty for the bad cam. The article doesn't say. Also, how many bikes were affected?
Harley seems to have admitted a design flaw. Sounds to me like there should be a recall. If I owned a Twin Cam and that cam went bad after the warranty extension expired, theyd have one hell of a fight getting 495 bones out of me. I can be mean when it comes to robbery. And even meaner if Im stuck on the side of the road with a broken cam and nothing to do but ponder why Im being inconvenienced and how much time Im wasting.
I just need to say this: While I appreciate all motorcycles, and admire Harley Davidson for their great business and branding success, the Harley Cults loyalty seems to be taken advantage of here. I understand the lure of HD lifestyle brand and the appeal of exclusivity as well as anyone (yes, I am in Advertising), but this smells of a particular kind of arrogance. The same kind that of arrogance that got them beaten up by the British manufacturers, and later, the Japanese. Let them eat cake?
This is why I too ride a Kawasaki.
Then again, I dont have all the info here. So if anyone else does, please enlighten me.
Harley seems to have admitted a design flaw. Sounds to me like there should be a recall. If I owned a Twin Cam and that cam went bad after the warranty extension expired, theyd have one hell of a fight getting 495 bones out of me. I can be mean when it comes to robbery. And even meaner if Im stuck on the side of the road with a broken cam and nothing to do but ponder why Im being inconvenienced and how much time Im wasting.
I just need to say this: While I appreciate all motorcycles, and admire Harley Davidson for their great business and branding success, the Harley Cults loyalty seems to be taken advantage of here. I understand the lure of HD lifestyle brand and the appeal of exclusivity as well as anyone (yes, I am in Advertising), but this smells of a particular kind of arrogance. The same kind that of arrogance that got them beaten up by the British manufacturers, and later, the Japanese. Let them eat cake?
This is why I too ride a Kawasaki.
Then again, I dont have all the info here. So if anyone else does, please enlighten me.
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1,754 Posts
Oh, I do have to add this: The lawsuit was a bit silly. Harley could just claim that as far as they knew, they had a great design until a flaw was discovered. You won't win a suit over commercial ad copy unless there is a gross inaccuracy in the content. Remember "Let the buyer beware."
The real problem is how The Motor Company is handling the problem with their product.
The real problem is how The Motor Company is handling the problem with their product.
Back Off Non-Harley People, the real problem was...
Harley changed bearing suppliers! That's right, they quit using good old American Timken bearings and started using nasty old foreign INA bearings. The cams are fine, it was simple bearing failure not a design flaw. Once the flaw was finally determined, it was fixed by replacing the now damaged cams and putting a decent damn bearing in its place. Still not as bad as the original Honda Interceptor main bearing problem that Honda still hasn't admitted fault for...but then again, they had no resale value any way.
This is actually a triumph for everybody, a law suit that should never had been allowed to be filed got beat, about damn time.....
Plus all the 1999 and 2000 Harley's have an updated cam set to boot.....
and yes, I wojld buy one, matter of fact did 2003 Electra Glide Classic, with Timken bearings behind the cam.....
BigJames
Harley changed bearing suppliers! That's right, they quit using good old American Timken bearings and started using nasty old foreign INA bearings. The cams are fine, it was simple bearing failure not a design flaw. Once the flaw was finally determined, it was fixed by replacing the now damaged cams and putting a decent damn bearing in its place. Still not as bad as the original Honda Interceptor main bearing problem that Honda still hasn't admitted fault for...but then again, they had no resale value any way.
This is actually a triumph for everybody, a law suit that should never had been allowed to be filed got beat, about damn time.....
Plus all the 1999 and 2000 Harley's have an updated cam set to boot.....
and yes, I wojld buy one, matter of fact did 2003 Electra Glide Classic, with Timken bearings behind the cam.....
BigJames
BMW bendable wheels NOT replaced
have had it happen on a R1100RT and K1200LT. The replacement wheels lok the same but are not. BMW refused to even talk about replacing them. BIG difference in customer service and yes, I still own the K1200LT any way...
BigJames
have had it happen on a R1100RT and K1200LT. The replacement wheels lok the same but are not. BMW refused to even talk about replacing them. BIG difference in customer service and yes, I still own the K1200LT any way...
BigJames
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1,754 Posts
Re: Back Off Non-Harley People, the real problem was...
So who's fault is that? It may not have been a design flaw, but it's still Harley's product, regardless of who the OEM parts supplier was. Do you think it's fair to potentially ask a customer to pay for a poor choice of bearing supplier?
Did they replace all of the cam sets with the bad bearings?
And the reason why Harley re-sale values are so high is that there are a certain group of people who are willing to pay blood for a motorcycle that, by most objective measures, is mediocre at best (excepting the V-Rod). They've bought a brand image and a membership in a particular club. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. In fact, I admire the marketing sense that Harley has employed. But I RIDE a motorcycle that I enjoy because of it's performance on the road, not because of it's performance in the blue book. If anyone gets a similar satisfaction from simply being seen on a Harley, God bless 'em. That's their choice.
But let's see what happens to those resale values as Harley keeps ramping up production. Hope they've got another V-Rod up their sleeves.
So who's fault is that? It may not have been a design flaw, but it's still Harley's product, regardless of who the OEM parts supplier was. Do you think it's fair to potentially ask a customer to pay for a poor choice of bearing supplier?
Did they replace all of the cam sets with the bad bearings?
And the reason why Harley re-sale values are so high is that there are a certain group of people who are willing to pay blood for a motorcycle that, by most objective measures, is mediocre at best (excepting the V-Rod). They've bought a brand image and a membership in a particular club. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. In fact, I admire the marketing sense that Harley has employed. But I RIDE a motorcycle that I enjoy because of it's performance on the road, not because of it's performance in the blue book. If anyone gets a similar satisfaction from simply being seen on a Harley, God bless 'em. That's their choice.
But let's see what happens to those resale values as Harley keeps ramping up production. Hope they've got another V-Rod up their sleeves.
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911 Posts
Scene at your local HD dealer:
Costumer: My engine is Knocking.
Service Manager: Bring it back when it brakes.
Costumer: That sucks and it could kill me and my passenger.
Service Manager: would you like to buy some overpriced accesories?
Costumer: You #$&*
Slam! Sound of door hitting costumers butt on his way out!
Costumer: My engine is Knocking.
Service Manager: Bring it back when it brakes.
Costumer: That sucks and it could kill me and my passenger.
Service Manager: would you like to buy some overpriced accesories?
Costumer: You #$&*
Slam! Sound of door hitting costumers butt on his way out!
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3,415 Posts
Re: Ad copy
Do you expect me to believe that ads aren't true. I suppose next you'll say that those articals in the Star and Enquierer are phony too!
I don't think a class action lawsuit was the right course because no company is going to produce a defective design on purpose. After the potential defects became known the NHSTA should have orderd a recall like they do with other products, I still don't know how HD ducked that bullet.
Do you expect me to believe that ads aren't true. I suppose next you'll say that those articals in the Star and Enquierer are phony too!
I don't think a class action lawsuit was the right course because no company is going to produce a defective design on purpose. After the potential defects became known the NHSTA should have orderd a recall like they do with other products, I still don't know how HD ducked that bullet.
"Tietsworth did not claim in his suit to have any problems with his Harley, but he hoped....." to make a few bucks?? LOL
Sooooooo, he never actually had a problem, but sued anyway. Funny thing is, it's hard to find anyone that actually had a problem. All the hand wringing about possibly being killed by something that will never happen is hilarious. I like the MCN findings of 50%+ failures. It's one thing to CLAIM something, and yet quite another to PROVE something. Internet BS don't count for much people. The court says Harley wins. Haters gonna hate anyway.
Sooooooo, he never actually had a problem, but sued anyway. Funny thing is, it's hard to find anyone that actually had a problem. All the hand wringing about possibly being killed by something that will never happen is hilarious. I like the MCN findings of 50%+ failures. It's one thing to CLAIM something, and yet quite another to PROVE something. Internet BS don't count for much people. The court says Harley wins. Haters gonna hate anyway.
Re: Ad copy
It's because they didn't duck any bullet. REAL failures are like hen's teeth. All internet bullshyt aside, Harley was just being honest when they saw ANY failures. All they needed to do was ignore the problem, and it would have never surfaced in the first place. It was just like the Y2K problem. More of a people problem than an ACTUAL one. I hear horror stories from people about current Triumphs all the time, yet owners of the marque seem to never have those complaints. How is that?
It's because they didn't duck any bullet. REAL failures are like hen's teeth. All internet bullshyt aside, Harley was just being honest when they saw ANY failures. All they needed to do was ignore the problem, and it would have never surfaced in the first place. It was just like the Y2K problem. More of a people problem than an ACTUAL one. I hear horror stories from people about current Triumphs all the time, yet owners of the marque seem to never have those complaints. How is that?
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