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The man is looking for a revolution. He wants an uprising. He thinks DMG is going to ruin motorcycle racing. So, in defense of DMG I was wondering what you think. Matt or DMG- which side are you on?
did you hear Mladin slam DMG?
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17,449 Posts
Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. If Superbike racing is dying it's partially because Matt and Suzuki have made it so boring. When you add the special rules that stop the race when a racer falls then AMA superbike becomes a farce... or became a farce.
So, DMG is changing things to try to put some life back into it. They should. However cutting the Supersport class was a mistake. It was far more entertaining than Superbike or Superstock.
Heck, local dirt track races are more entertaining for that matter.
So, DMG is changing things to try to put some life back into it. They should. However cutting the Supersport class was a mistake. It was far more entertaining than Superbike or Superstock.
Heck, local dirt track races are more entertaining for that matter.
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1,609 Posts
Super Smash Bike, eh?
So no more cherry pickin for Mat, eh? I feel so bad for him. Just watched the boring race at Infinion this weekend, and watching two guys lap the field again is really getting old. Of course Mat doesn't like it. He's got far and away the fastest bike with Spies, so those to just run away and hide every race. Great for him, sucks to watch.
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17,449 Posts
What are you talking about? Honda's PR flacks were saying that the Honda is the fastest bike in the world! How could they possibly lose?
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17,449 Posts
You too? We went from furnace to swamp cooler in record time last week. I went from Joe Rocket Ballistic to AGV mesh overnight.
As far as AMA Superbike goes I find spraying my lawn more entertaining. That and riding around on Zrex. 'Course Zrex is more fun that most things. Especially those boat anchor old Bandits.
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4,129 Posts
I don't like the class structure that's proposed, but I get the idea. If you run two pro classes and make it as affordable as possible by limiting the modifications for the classes then more people should be able to run. If Superbike becomes LiterBike and the Superstock rules were used as the starting point then Yosh's technology advantage is removed from the equation. Matt suddenly has to use his talent to stay out front.
My feeling about him rejecting the Daytona Superbike 600 is simply that he's whining because there will be not top dog in a brand new class. He'll have to earn it all over again and he's scared to go against the new breed of rider's that will eventually replace him. So, whine now and make John Q Racefan believe that DMG is on the wrong track.
My biggest issue is 600 Supersport. We need a feeder class and Supersport is great. Like I've said before, it allows veteran racers to run against the up and comers and makes for great racing because they are racing what John Q can buy at the bikeshop. Great example is that of Ben Bostrom and Josh Herrin. I know they are teammates but Josh is a hungry, talented, young racer and in most cases he's hanging tough with a guy that was racing before the kid was in middle school.
Knowing that Daytona Superbike will (in DMG's statement) run 4 man squads is where things get hairy. Do they mean 4 per manufacturer? If so, then that's not such a big issue. Two American Honda riders and two Erion riders make a four man team. But it they mean 4 man teams then things could get really sticky for guys like Attack or Larry Pegram or Celtic Racing. These guys don't have the resources to manage that type of operation. And I for one don't want to watch those teams fold.
If DMG wants people to be on board with a major shift in what we've been used to for decades then be more forthcoming with info and let us understand the formula. If you get the fans to understand and accept the new formula then the manufacturers will listen and give it a shot. Worst case is re-structuring the formula because it busted. I realize that DMG feels this must be resolved with the OEMs first, but if they took the case to John Q and really explained this in detail then maybe the OEMs would be more excited about this shift because they know that Racefan is willing to come to the races and see if it works.
My feeling about him rejecting the Daytona Superbike 600 is simply that he's whining because there will be not top dog in a brand new class. He'll have to earn it all over again and he's scared to go against the new breed of rider's that will eventually replace him. So, whine now and make John Q Racefan believe that DMG is on the wrong track.
My biggest issue is 600 Supersport. We need a feeder class and Supersport is great. Like I've said before, it allows veteran racers to run against the up and comers and makes for great racing because they are racing what John Q can buy at the bikeshop. Great example is that of Ben Bostrom and Josh Herrin. I know they are teammates but Josh is a hungry, talented, young racer and in most cases he's hanging tough with a guy that was racing before the kid was in middle school.
Knowing that Daytona Superbike will (in DMG's statement) run 4 man squads is where things get hairy. Do they mean 4 per manufacturer? If so, then that's not such a big issue. Two American Honda riders and two Erion riders make a four man team. But it they mean 4 man teams then things could get really sticky for guys like Attack or Larry Pegram or Celtic Racing. These guys don't have the resources to manage that type of operation. And I for one don't want to watch those teams fold.
If DMG wants people to be on board with a major shift in what we've been used to for decades then be more forthcoming with info and let us understand the formula. If you get the fans to understand and accept the new formula then the manufacturers will listen and give it a shot. Worst case is re-structuring the formula because it busted. I realize that DMG feels this must be resolved with the OEMs first, but if they took the case to John Q and really explained this in detail then maybe the OEMs would be more excited about this shift because they know that Racefan is willing to come to the races and see if it works.
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4,129 Posts
Is the proposed format change worth you looking at races again? DMG knows the problem. They are being hammered for radical changes, but radical change is the only way to correct the issues that Pro Racing is dealing with. So, If you could grid the following: The Boz Bros, The Hayden Bros, Hacker, DuHamel, Hodgeson, Herrin, Pegram, Zemke, Davies, Eslick, the boys from Emgo/M4, Yates, May and three or four others on the Daytona Superbike grid for an entire season, would you watch? Screw Matt! If he thinks he's too good for the new format then- P!SS OFF, Wanker! Retire and go back to Australia and run Aus Superbike.
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8,715 Posts
I guess it would
seem like the Z-REX had some beans for those too frail and elderly to handly the mighty Bandit...
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4,129 Posts
Edmondson Said
"I think we have to start by making ourselves happy by knowing we are going to deliver a product which evolves with its means and can build over a period of time build on things that all those things people are looking for.
Right now, I see people defending the current Superbike program like it's the Holy Bible. I look at a race yesterday that had 21 guys in it, about 12-13 real Superbikes in it. This from a country with 300 million people, I don't find that acceptable. And so while there are those that will vehemently say this is the way that God intended it, there are those of us who disagree just as vehemently. How do you balance that? Fortunately, for me, I am going to do something about it. I am going to try it out my way and see if its any better. It certainly can't be any worse."
"I think that we'll win them over with good competition and the fact that they'll come out here to a good facility and not know who is going to win until the checkered flag comes out. I think that's important. Is it possible that if we changed everything today that Mladin and Spies would win every race? Of course it is. They are two of the best riders in the world, let alone the US. But we won't know until we do this."
"I think that when you look at these fellows like Barry Bonds who have all these home runs but have an asterisks, we don't have asterisks here but maybe if we factored in special equipment and special tires we might. So if we take away some of those special things we'll find out how special the humans are. I don't know that the results won't be the same. But I'd like to know."
This is why I now believe DMG is on the right track. The man scares some but raises valid points in trying to improve a broken system.
"I think we have to start by making ourselves happy by knowing we are going to deliver a product which evolves with its means and can build over a period of time build on things that all those things people are looking for.
Right now, I see people defending the current Superbike program like it's the Holy Bible. I look at a race yesterday that had 21 guys in it, about 12-13 real Superbikes in it. This from a country with 300 million people, I don't find that acceptable. And so while there are those that will vehemently say this is the way that God intended it, there are those of us who disagree just as vehemently. How do you balance that? Fortunately, for me, I am going to do something about it. I am going to try it out my way and see if its any better. It certainly can't be any worse."
"I think that we'll win them over with good competition and the fact that they'll come out here to a good facility and not know who is going to win until the checkered flag comes out. I think that's important. Is it possible that if we changed everything today that Mladin and Spies would win every race? Of course it is. They are two of the best riders in the world, let alone the US. But we won't know until we do this."
"I think that when you look at these fellows like Barry Bonds who have all these home runs but have an asterisks, we don't have asterisks here but maybe if we factored in special equipment and special tires we might. So if we take away some of those special things we'll find out how special the humans are. I don't know that the results won't be the same. But I'd like to know."
This is why I now believe DMG is on the right track. The man scares some but raises valid points in trying to improve a broken system.
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11,482 Posts
And if none of that works - we'll throw a criss-cross-crash jump into the mix, name it Super Smashbike and run it on the infield the day-before a NASCAR Race.
THAT outta bring 'em runnin'!
(I keed you Kirk! I KEED you!)
THAT outta bring 'em runnin'!
(I keed you Kirk! I KEED you!)
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4,129 Posts
Gotta start somewhere. The racing is a joke and someone's feelings will be hurt, but if you give it 2 seasons and then decide if the "fix" is broke that's way better than leaving the current system in place.And if none of that works - we'll throw a criss-cross-crash jump into the mix, name it Super Smashbike and run it on the infield the day-before a NASCAR Race.
THAT outta bring 'em runnin'!
(I keed you Kirk! I KEED you!)
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17,449 Posts
From observing the empty stands at AMA road races I'd say just about any change would be an improvement.
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7,113 Posts
Since none of us can predict the future, and since DMG has no direct experience with motorcycle racing (that I'm aware of), the question has to be: is DMG well positioned to be sucessful with this enterprise? Then you look at what they've done in similar endeavours and draw conclusions based on applicable past performance. Thus, I'd say you can expect DMG to be good at getting sponsorships, tee-vee coverage, and large audiences. But clearly, there's a lot more to what AMA does in racing than that, so, the next thing you can look at is who they bring into the game. If they find players who understand the nuances of motorcycle racing, not just in the US, but worldwide as well, people who can work well with the manufacturers and teams, and the like, then they're well positioned for creating their own expertise over time.
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4,129 Posts
Edmondson ran AMA Pro Racing and France is a "motorcycle nut"- so I believe they have a grasp on what's up with marketing a race series. It's convencing the OEMs that they can still play hard and not have to worry about footing the bill like in the past. Problem is that with money comes power and the OEMs have been running the show in Pro Racing for two decades. DMG wants to take the power away and the OEMs are scared. The biggest thing the OEMs have to get used to is letting sponsors run the promotion and letting the riders race. In the end, their cost (to make the show) should be reduced making it easier to afford more riders per team.
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