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Bye Ducati, first post
Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules
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Meh, I'm kinda with Ducati on this one, although I know in the past I have said they have been *****in ' and moanin' about "uncompetitiveness" until they got their way, which meant that they were blowing all the other bikes into the weeds.
I don't think they'll see off the likes of Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda in AMA with a change in rules. It might just level things up a bit. If they start to dominate, put air restrictors on them to slow them down.
Give 'em a tweak, AMA, if only to keep them here.
I don't think they'll see off the likes of Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda in AMA with a change in rules. It might just level things up a bit. If they start to dominate, put air restrictors on them to slow them down.
Give 'em a tweak, AMA, if only to keep them here.
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AMA has been walking around with it's head up it's a$$ for years. They think that they have the best racing series and don't want to play with the FIM. FIM, on the other hand, are their own pain in the a$$. But in this case Ducati is right. There needs to be a single standard for Superbike racing so AMA and FIM and even the Canadian and Australian Superbike guys can transition from series to another without many tech mods for any of the series'.
This isn't about racing, it's about selling motorcycles. Ducati has gotten to where they are(i.e. very profitable) by being able to dominate the SuperBike class in the past by having a platform that puts the power down better than a high rpm screeching inline four. Now that that advantage has gone by the wayside, Ducati wants to get it back. Win races, sell bikes. Ever noticed how much bike sales increased as a result of their domination of SuperBike during the 90's and early 2000's?
Let's talk about Ducati. I (as a machinist ) have always had a problem with Ducati. The Desmo valvetrain gives the advantage of never allowing valvetrain to go into valve float. But for what ever reason they do not rev high enough to go into valve float - so why are they spending so much money on this valve train? Let's make this right.
Start with a new clean sheet -
Ducati I-4 approx 998cc with a desmo valvetrain. Tach reading redline at 20k.
Rules stay in place and lets see if they can play on the same field with the toys...
Just a thought.
Start with a new clean sheet -
Ducati I-4 approx 998cc with a desmo valvetrain. Tach reading redline at 20k.
Rules stay in place and lets see if they can play on the same field with the toys...
Just a thought.
With a twin, I'm sure they are reaching piston speed limits before valve train limits. With longer stroke than a four and heavy pistons, they can't rev that high without ripping the rods apart. The tach can read 20K still, but they dare not approach that.
How about Desmodishi Street Edition...
The Desmodeishi rr is a horribly expensive, ultra elite piece of machinery.
But why not make a Desmo-8 Street? Different style, new V4 engine, and dominate Superbike with that? The 999 series is going to want a refresh anyway, why not commit fully to the V4 for sportbikes?
The Desmodeishi rr is a horribly expensive, ultra elite piece of machinery.
But why not make a Desmo-8 Street? Different style, new V4 engine, and dominate Superbike with that? The 999 series is going to want a refresh anyway, why not commit fully to the V4 for sportbikes?
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Re: How about Desmodishi Street Edition...
Ducati's brand has been built around the twin cylinder engine.
It seems fair to me to allow a displacement advantage for various engine designs in order to level the field, whether it be Ducati or a Buell or even a Japanese bike.
The superbike classes are meant to reflect street machines.. If everyone has to race I4's to be competitive, then we'll only have I4's available for street bikes. Why not have a racing class that allows for a diverse field, both in designs and in manufacturers? Ducati (and maybe KTM and Buell) would have to spend a huge amount of money to stay competitive with equal displacement 4 cylinder bikes. It does no one any good for these manufacturers to be left out.
Ducati's brand has been built around the twin cylinder engine.
It seems fair to me to allow a displacement advantage for various engine designs in order to level the field, whether it be Ducati or a Buell or even a Japanese bike.
The superbike classes are meant to reflect street machines.. If everyone has to race I4's to be competitive, then we'll only have I4's available for street bikes. Why not have a racing class that allows for a diverse field, both in designs and in manufacturers? Ducati (and maybe KTM and Buell) would have to spend a huge amount of money to stay competitive with equal displacement 4 cylinder bikes. It does no one any good for these manufacturers to be left out.
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Re: I4
They tried something like that with the RC51 and Honda promtly went out and kicked everyone's butts. The 4s spin up faster giving the bikes better straight speed. That's where Ducati is getting their twin handed to them. The major problem is that FIM needs Ducati because most of the Superbike races are run in Europe. Ducati IS the brand to have because of that. Ducati, on the other hand, needs the rules change because they simply think that the displacement increase will allow them to gain power. If they get their way say goodbye to AMA racing because they will not build two different styles of superbikes anymore. Racing as we know it will be completely different within 3 yrs because the Euro brand bikes won't have the funds to run different applications of the same basic bike. As for Ducati running anything other than a twin format- not possible for the company and the company boss said just that in a recent interview. The 800 cc L-4 motor for GP is just a platform for testing and Ducati knows it. They like to win GP races but there is no way for them to be as consistant as Yamaha or Honda in the race class and they know that, too.
They tried something like that with the RC51 and Honda promtly went out and kicked everyone's butts. The 4s spin up faster giving the bikes better straight speed. That's where Ducati is getting their twin handed to them. The major problem is that FIM needs Ducati because most of the Superbike races are run in Europe. Ducati IS the brand to have because of that. Ducati, on the other hand, needs the rules change because they simply think that the displacement increase will allow them to gain power. If they get their way say goodbye to AMA racing because they will not build two different styles of superbikes anymore. Racing as we know it will be completely different within 3 yrs because the Euro brand bikes won't have the funds to run different applications of the same basic bike. As for Ducati running anything other than a twin format- not possible for the company and the company boss said just that in a recent interview. The 800 cc L-4 motor for GP is just a platform for testing and Ducati knows it. They like to win GP races but there is no way for them to be as consistant as Yamaha or Honda in the race class and they know that, too.
Racing is about selling....
Not a suprise. The AMA used to use a formula using the amount of air pumped by an engine or smoe BS like that. Kinda made sense. Personally, I say no specials. Race stockers head to head based on stock power to race ratio. Should be about the racer, not the bike. IF not, why does the racer get the trophy and play with the bubbly! The bike just kinda sits there and gets scrutinized....
Not a suprise. The AMA used to use a formula using the amount of air pumped by an engine or smoe BS like that. Kinda made sense. Personally, I say no specials. Race stockers head to head based on stock power to race ratio. Should be about the racer, not the bike. IF not, why does the racer get the trophy and play with the bubbly! The bike just kinda sits there and gets scrutinized....
Firstly they should make superbikes 750's. Sure that's nuts since only Suzuki makes a 750 but it's a damn shame that class has died because it makes so much damn sense. We can't change history I guess but the liter bikes are nuts and 750's like the Gixer can do everything the liter bikes can do in 99.9999% of real world and track situations.
So make the superbikes 750's and as a sop to Ducati and twins give them another 150cc's. I am sure they can pull a 900 out of the parts bin. If not, too bad.
I will now go back to solving the Middle East crisis which compared to this is a piece of cake.
So make the superbikes 750's and as a sop to Ducati and twins give them another 150cc's. I am sure they can pull a 900 out of the parts bin. If not, too bad.
I will now go back to solving the Middle East crisis which compared to this is a piece of cake.
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