[tripleripple]

IF WE ARE GIVING UP THE TWIN IN RACING, WHY ARE WE ASKING BUELL TO GIVE US A VTWIN DESIGNED TO PERFORM ON THE TRACK????

Yep, I'm yelling now. You guys must get tired chasing your tails all day long.

 

[seruzawa]

Sort of, except it was an imaginary motorcycle with imaginary repairs and an imaginary stick. Or maybe it was an imaginary broomhandle. That's more like it.

 

[acecycleins]

Ok Ya'll,



Let's set some "racing" thing right here. Yossef and anyone else that follow the FIM bellow if I'm wrong:

1- FIM allowed the 1000 V-twin rule because they knew that the Twins were down on power racing against the 750 in the late 90s early 2000s.

2- After some some rules book haggling in (what 2001 or so) the FIM says- we're letting the I4 increase to liter and doing so we will allow Twins to run modified cranks and valves and a number of other small internal moving parts to balance the field. Ducati was allowed this, with Honda just winning a Superbike championship or two (w/ RC51s), because Honda knew they were going to run I4 motors in the 2003 season. Honda didn't care what Ducati "brung to the dance" mostly because they knew Ducati could never make up the HP difference.

Now, Ducati is back to the "rules" table asking for the 20% to make the bike LESS technical and Easier to maintain than the current bike. Ducati's arguement isn't about total HP in this case. It's the fact that in current format the F6 motor has 1/2 the life span than it's I4 competitors. Costing (effectively) twice as much money to maintain the motor. That's not including all the "specialty" parts that go into the thing. Ducati WILL waive the parts allowance when FIM allows the CC increase, because they (Ducati) believe that they can compete in the class using ONLY the CC increase and the "standardized" allowable parts as the rest of the field. They will not mass produce a V4 because it's not what Ducati is about. They live by the "Race what you sell" tag. So, KP- don't expect it. Not in Ducati's case.

Aprilia is making the V-4 because the ROTAX twin CANNOT in ANY case be competitive. So, that's their reasoning for introducing the V4 Superbike and brining a new sportbike to the market place. Problem is that Aprilia will be selling a $40k+ bike in this market. Now, I like Aprilia but do you think that you would be in the market for a $40K Aprilia before you would consider a $27K-$30K Ducati "R"? Think I'd take the backing of the Duc warranty way before I cosidered the Aprilia. Aprilia couldn't get the CUBE to race in GP without 'splosions and I don't see them coming in and setting WSB on fire for two or better seasons. MV has a better shot at the title than Aprilia does. That's my take. Feel free to counter-point at your convenience.

 

[58680]

Did I miss something????

Didn't Bayliss and the Duc dominate WSB in 2006 and win the title by like 75 points?

I can understand that Duc would assume that the rules would be changed to accomodate them (yet again), but surely they don't need a rules change to keep them competitive... maybe if they wanted to keep racing in a 1000cc class they should have built a 1000cc bike?

Don't guess there's much point arguing over it, I have zero doubt that if Duc wants it, Duc will get it, you'd have to be even dumber than I am to bet against a trend that hasn't failed in 20 years...

 

[acecycleins]

Until Mr. Buell decides to make a "proper" twin, as the peanut gallery would prefer, the XB is only allowed to race in FX in the AMA. Since the AMA is the only race body in the USA that anyone follows regularly, Buell's requested changes (from the peanut gallery, once again) to motor design he's stuck in obscurity. Only the Buell loyalist and those that don't follow racing will buy Buell motorcycles. If the "new" generation of Buell bikes doesn't change Mr. Buell will be stuck in the "small" volume motorcycle hell in which he resides right now. So, change or stagnate, just like I said the other day. It's his choice.

 

[The_AirHawk]

You think?

 

[The_AirHawk]

Means the same thing. Can be excused, as Yossef probably doesn't do 100% of his thinking in "English". (and that's at least one-up on me - as I don't do 100% of my thinking in English either.........)

 

[The_AirHawk]

Sorry, forgot the Disclaimer:

The Previous Post contained Irony and was typed "Tongue in Cheek". May not be suitable for those unable to laugh at themselves...........

 

[tripleripple]

OK, so twins are alive and well in racing. One guy says they're dead another says they aren't. As long as they are proper, that is. Is that what you tell customers about the showroom Ducs?....great bikes but terrible engines because in order to be competitive in racing the rules have to be changed to accomodate them. Maybe one day Ducati will build a proper twin...(you tell 'em 'cause I wouldn't dare).

 

[bbtowns]

A factually accurate post on a MO board regarding twins vs 4s. You sure you're not on the wrong board?

 

[56599]

Excellent. Thanks..

 

[The_Aerodynamic_Head]

Oh? Oh, yeah?! Well...well....



Your MOM!



--Sincerely,





----KPaulCook

 

[56599]

Your list is growing.

Funny but your list of things you are wrong and or totally ignorant keeps getting longer much faster than mine. Now you claim an engineering background but don't know why a LaPlace transform is valuable. All engineers should be able to answer that since they all are required to take electrical circuit analysis. That is of course if they go to a school which has the proper accreditation.

Here is a partial list of wrong stuff

[*]You said velocity not important in a crash, indicates a lack of basis physics education i.e energy varies with the square of the velocity

[*]You said cruisers have better brakes

[*]Iraq War

[*]WMD

[*]V-Twins in racing

[*]Budget deficits

The list is growing keep talking..

 

[56599]

OK here is my quick summary..

V-Twins are on their way out in racing..They are inherently inferior to I-4s and V-4s. That said the Buell V-Twin is much more inferior to Ducati V-Twins. Just to muddy the water but back when Twins had a 250cc advantage to I-4s in World and AMA World superbike. Honda built a V-Twin, RC-51, which was superior to Ducatis. Colin Edwards on the RC beat Bayliss on a Ducati. In addition the Honda engines lasted a lot longer..

 

[36284]

Why are we being logical all of a sudden? It feels funny. I don't know if I like it.....

 

[BrowningBAR]

You can take that info to the bank between all that track time and competitive racing you have under your belt. Plus all that time you have wrenching and rebuilding bikes over the years really puts you in positions to comment on so many aspects of the integrity and real world competitiveness of the racing community and engine design.



I value this info and hope some day a book will be available for me to purchase that will allow me to reference all of the golden nuggets of information that has streamed from your fingers in such a thought provoking manner.



Truely, this is the Stephen Hawking of the motorcycle world.

 

[acecycleins]

I'm sorry that facts, as well as they can be presented, elude you. Buell uses a 50 year old motor design and is TRYING to compete in racing with it. CAN HE WIN?! NO. CAN HE PLACE. By God's grace- but God probably has more things to attend to. SO, Buell (if he wants to WIN) must change his motor design.

As for me and my job working at a Ducati Shop, doesn't matter. Facts are plainly stated below as to why Ducati is petitioning for a 20% increase. They are valid. Ducati cannot compete with the F6 motor because the design is too expensive to keep alive. If they are allowed the displacement increase they can change the way they set-up the monitary struture of the race teams because they WILL NOT have to spend so much money trying to make the motor (F6) compete. The 1200 petition will allow TWIN teams to spend less money because they will concede all the "special" rules that are designed just for them. That's as simple as I can get it. If you are still lost please seek help from sources that may provide medication for your problem.

 

[56599]

kbashing, kslamming, kwhinning, and kobsession. I feel sorry for ya..

 

[schizuki]

Re: Your list is growing.

What's up with the crash, repair, ride, repair thing? Did you have another crash?

 

[The_AirHawk]

Seemed like the biggest compliment you're ever likely to get............