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Wasteful things ...

Hi Merv

Perhaps we should sell the house and buy more bikes ... no, wait, we'd never get insurance on our bikes if they were in a tent rather than a locked garage!

I'm sure the V-Rod will sell well here in the UK. Over here I think "Harley Davidson" is a badge thing. Top-spec Fords never sell as well over here as equivalent BMWs or Mercedes, even if they're much cheaper, because they just don't have the right badge to show off your good taste. The kind of peole to whom this matters will probably find the idea of a Harley badge but more modern performance standards particularly appealing. Plus they can go into their local pub and announce, loudly enough so everyone can (has to) hear "hey - I've got a V-Rod"!

Of course I wouldn't be swayed by this as I've clearly no idea of style at all. I've got a Cagiva Raptor instead of the Ducati Monster S4. it doesn't matter that the Raptor is the better bike - it still doesn't have the right Italian name on the tank!

Hmmmm...

Janet

Weston-super-Mare, UK
 

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I LOVE my Buell......but Buells do not come close to these numbers without extensive and expensive modifications. My M2 was rated at 91 crank horsies stock, and after the breather/pipe/ignition/jet kit mods, I picked up an estimated 7-10 hp. But this is at the crank. You must account for a 15% loss for hp at the rear wheel. I am nowhere near 108 rwhp. To get close I'd need to re-do the entire engine.



The V-Rod makes this power bone stock!
 

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Re: Because it is!

The V-Rod is clearly a very impressive motorcycle and any fair-minded person would acknowledge this. It seems clear to me that you hate Harley-Davidson and will not give proper credit where it's due. Show us another cruiser with a V-TWIN engine that puts out similar power.
 

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Let's face it...this engine belongs in an X1. Theis one change would catapult Buell back into the naked bike wars now starting...RHP migh be down on a Fazer, but what about the power to weight ratio between the two? An X1 now weighs 440 dry (reportedly)...



A tasty proposition (for me, anyway). Only time will see.
 

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Re: Sleepless nights

Buffalo: I disagree. The japs have a smaller margin on

their bikes, and make $$ by the economy of scale. IOW,

they sell *a lot* of bikes. (When you include scooters,

2strokes, and small machines...hell even generators and

lawnmower engines) Harley only has one product line...

Heavy cruiser motorcycles. Mark
 

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It would seem you're right and you're wrong...

My apologies, I made that statement based on the published 115hp (H-D public numbers are crank hp not rear wheel) without reading the dyno chart closely. Assuming that this test bike provided is exactly like and typical of prod specimens, it somehow did NOT lose 15% of it's hp or it would be down below 100. Your 15% est. is not a "must" it's a "rule of thumb" because different drivetrains lose different amounts of power (even vehicles that are the "same" --due to manufacturing variances).

Some owners of EFI Buells (101 crank stock hp) *claim* to have gotten well over 110 or more with mainly exhaust, airbox etc. mods. I haven't seen the dyno data to prove it though.
 

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Re: Amazing!? Why?

You can knock on H-D all you want but bottom line is that they are the master of supply/demand economics, their profit margins are legendary, their owners loyal and their stockholders happy. How many other MFGRs dealer's *can* sell over MSRP? This is a business remember.
 

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Re: It would seem you

ACE & Lime,

True, the 15% rule is a guide...not a rule. But ACE is right in the fact that even 98 rwhp (115hp-15%) is VERY impressive for a STOCK V-Twin cruiser. Perhaps the V-Rod that MO received mistakenly had the "Buell" version installed in it?????? Guess not!

I do wish that Buell had stuffed a tuned version of the V-Rod engine into the XB9R chassis. Maybe next year...H-D's 100th and Buell's 20th anniversaries.
 

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Re: Because it is!

Honda's VTX has around the same HP and around 25% more torque!!

Face it, the only reason such a big deal is being made about this bike is because Harley made it, and it is pretty amazing that Harley actually made a competitive engine. Aside from the fact that Harley made it, there is nothing remarkable about this engine by today's standards.

The bike does look very nice though. But no way is it worth 50% to 75% more money than other similar bikes.
 

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Re: It would seem you

You summed it all up with the last portion of your post....you haven't seen any dyno readings to back up the reports. I have to say upfront that I have never owned a buel, but I have ridden a few and found that they are more a novelty bike then a real world machine. They have had quite a few teething problems in the past and still do to a certain extent today. Maybe with Porche having a hand in the development this won't happen on the V-rod. Either way I think I'll keep my RC51 :)
 

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Re: Amazing!? Why?

While not quite the way I would have worded it I have to agree with you. Yes it pumps out 107bhp but the weight factor nulls some of the gains. Either way I'm happy for Harley, now I won't feel so bad for those saps laying out all kinds of money for a Name plate. Now they will actually be getting some bang for their buck. Kudos to Harley for not building another regurgitated version of the same old junk.
 

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Re: Because it is!

The word is that the V-Rod will spank the VTX as far as performance. I rode the VTX in June. It is an awesome bike! BUT, there is no denying that the V-Rod is mighty impressive with only 1130cc.

I am anxiously awaiting the 1800cc Valkyrie with the aluminum frame from the new GoldWing. Any takers for that beast???
 

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Re: Sleepless nights

Lets get serious here, do you really think that the big 4 won't unleash somehting better then the V-rod in less then a year? Your sadly mistaken if you do. It will only take them a couple of months in the the ol' R&D room and a few changes and the next thing you know the v-rod will be just another over priced cruiser on the market. I'm glad you got yours for sticker..you'll probably be the only one. But to sit here and think that the Big 4 will just sit back and let this happen means that your not firmly grounded in reality my friend. They can do in months what it has taken Harley decades to do.
 

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Did you get beat up by Willie G. as a kid or something? Why are you so angry? H-D built an impressive product with the V-Rod. And their classic style machines are what they are...and people continuously buy them. Should H-D discontinue their entire product line because you don't like them? What would it take for you to buy a great product from this company? What would make you happy?
 

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err... what about...

There is one product line called Harley Davidson. It contains everything from motorcycles to perfume. Basically anything that you can fit a "Genuine Harley Davidson" label on contributes to their spectacular profit-taking ability. Good for 'em I say. Fool, money, etc.
 

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It looks like a great bike, no doubt many new owners will keep plenty of emergency rooms busy.



Since I'm from the lower rungs of the economic ladder (or just "thrifty" or maybe flatter myself as "responsible") these high dollar bikes will never be more than a pipe dream for me. I've got a wife, kids, mortgage, etc to pay. My '85 Nighthawk has to do it for me.



What I'd like to see is MO do a story on biking on a budget. Say how to find a great used bike for less than $2000. Tell us which oldsters are both fun to ride and reliable.



Thanks MO for the fun stories, I love to check out your reviews on bikes that may be mine in 10 to 15 years.
 

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Re: Wasteful things ...

Having bought a ford once I know why they dont sell. That was the worst mistake I ever made, what a piece of [email protected]! Traded it in after 55k miles due to the at least 15 problems I had most within miles of the 36k warranty expiring. 36.1 ignition, 36.4 intermitant wipers, 36.8 heater fan. All that engineering to break at a certain mileage payed off for them, but just taught me they suck...
 

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Well, that's a reasonable power and torque curve for a modern engine of that displacement, about what you'd expect from a liquid-cooled 60 degree v-twin. It does point up what a good job Kawi did on the ZRX1200 engine though, which is roughly the same displacement and not only outpowers it by a little, as expected for a i-4, but also out-torques it by a bit, even at lower rpms. Still, I would not be unhappy riding a bike with this engine in it.
 
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