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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off, the world won't be ready to dump the internal combustion engine in 2020. But do expect to see more economical systems (ethanol motorcycles, fuel cell technology, etc) showing up in the near future.

Second, what's wrong with caring about the environment? I love bikes that get great gas mileage and have catalytic converters--I wish there were more out there.

Yes, I am a serious motorcyclist, and yes, I did vote GORE, so flame away. For some reason it seems like the only people on this site are conservatives. When Bush repeals all the national parkland in Colorado, get used to canyon carving in mining complexes instead of scenic canyons.

Am I really the only politically liberal motorcyclist out there?
 

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As Gore is the enemy of all things with internal-combustion engines, I would expect to see more Bush supporters (like me) here, and I have so far. Much as I would like to see Bush elected over Gore, I believe this elector college has far outlived it's usefullness. In the days before news of the candidates was readily available to all people, it had a purpose. In today's information age, it's a dinosaur that should have been put to rest long ago. Having said that, as much as I HATE Al "Clinton-Puppet" Gore, he should have been elected president. The people spoke, the popular vote shows it. Sometimes, however, I've thought that a minimum score on an I.Q. test should be mandatory for voter registration, but, I digress.......
 

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And I quote:

"We consume something like 40% of the world's resources, to feed, clothe, and pamper less than 5% of its population".

Why don't we just kill the rich then? Most of the hard-core "Enviromentalists" I see are total hypocrits. For instance, you already admitted to having a motorcycle. Why not ride the bus? You have a computer and have logged in here. THAT'S not a toy? All the food you eat was brought in on a truck. "meat consumption"? Are you a vegetarian? What about all those poor vegetables you've murdered and eaten? What kind of gas-guzzling SUV do you drive? Or do you REALLY not own a car, and take the bus everywhere? A lot of people say they're for the environment, because it makes you look cool, and "sensitive", and it's fashionable. But nobody walks the walk. The only people that do, are the various tribes around the world that completely live off the land, at harmony with nature. No TV, radio, cars, medicine, food that you don't have to hunt or gather, no nothing. I'm not ready to live that way, neither are you, and neither is Gore. No "civilized" man would give up those things forever either, we are too used to them.
 

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"You can be for increased fuel efficiency, the exploration of alternatives to the IC engine, and for finding ways to decrease the reliance on fossil fuels without being anti-motorcycle."

Gore is anti-vehicle. He would have us (the little people) all riding the bus, while he gets carted around in a limo. Personally, I like the basic idea of a hydrogen fueled vehicle. It's a great fuel. Clean-burning. The problem is packaging enough of it in a safe way. But then it's still an IC enjine. Ethanol? Big joke there. Destroys gaskets and seals, and aluminum parts. Very corrosive. Methanol is better, but then the corn growers wouldn't get their cut. Here's a real scary thought about the alcohol fuels: very toxic, and mixes easily with water, and there are few bacteria that eat the stuff. When there's a gas or oil spill, it floats on the surface, instead of mixing with water, thus aiding removal. Also, there are bacteria that have been cultured to eat the stuff. Get a large quantity of alcohol in a water supply, and you're hosed. Electric vehicles? Now that's a real big joke. The greenies like to point at the electric cars and call them polution free. FALSE! The electricity to charge the batteries came from, most likely, a coal-burning plant. I'm for reducing emissions, and preserving the land, but let's be realistic. One "junker" can emit more pollution than 200 regular cars. Instead of punishing the rest of us, make those guys clean up their cars. Don't even get me started on the buses and heavy trucks belching smoke. As far as drilling and mining rights, as long as the human race increases in size, there will be the need for more consumables.
 

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Meat Gazing...

Refers to staring at other men's genitalia while urinating. The wacky implication is that sportbikers are all gay! Ho, ho, that guy really set us "straight", huh!
 

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Lighten up!

I love how conservatives use an "all or nothing" argument. What, I can't have a modest standaed of living and be an enviromentalist? All the guy was advocating was that we should examine our consumption habits and think about changing them. Nobody is suggesting that we all go live on windmill-powered communes!

What's wrong with protecting the environment? What's wrong with eating less meat? (note I said "less") What's wrong with developing alternative energy?

Well, I'll tell you: corporate america is making so much money that they are steering our national debate away from the environment via the corporate-controlled media. But there's some serious **** going down- ice cap melting, and folks in South America that can't go outside durng the day because of a massive hole in the ozone layer! It's true!
 

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Did you know?

That after Roe v. Wade, the number of abortions in the US stayed constant? But do you know what declined in numbers? Women who died during abortions.

For you to say women want to keep this right to retain power is so bizzare and crazy. They want to keep the right so they don't start dieing again!
 

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Electrical College

Is a good thing because it is a nother buffer from "mob rule." It gives smaller states a little protection from the more populous states.

What makes our system look good to other countries is the orderly transition of power and rule of law. We'll see what happens- whether you're left or right, you gotta admit this is pretty exciting. Keep a journal for you grandkids.
 

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Re: Lighten up!

Answer me this Gabe...... What ended the last Ice Age? Was it Global Warming? YES! Was it LONG before man made polloution even existed? YES! Were there holes in the ozone layer in the stone ages? Who knows. We DO know that the hole(s) in the ozone layer DO expand and contract.... Is this because annual output of pollutants increases and decreases? NO!
 

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Re: Lighten up!

Corporate-controlled media? Get your facts straight bozo, our media is dominated by leftists. At every survey of journalists, over 80% of them are democratic.

Why do you assume that conservatives are "against" the environment? Just because we don't want to go back to eating berries, live in straw huts and wearing fig leaves doesn't mean we want to destroy the environment. Does anybody here honestly think that there are people out there acting on a Prime Directive to ruin the environment? Nobody is against developing alternative energy either, except environmentalists. Just try to get a new, safe, clean nuclear power plant built. The dirt-bag protesters will be out there until they're dead.

I'm sick and tired of bagging on "corporations" and "corporate America." These corporations wouldn't have anything if it weren't for the general public buying their stuff. When the mass majority of citizens of this country keep buying their Nikes, Expeditions and Sony TV's, it's obvious that the mass majority of us like what the "big bad corporations" do for us.

On the subject of meat, you go do whatever the hell you gotta do. I'll do what I want to do. You can eat any amount of meat that makes you happy. Don't try to tell me how much I should eat.
 

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Re: Did you know?

So women "need" this right to keep from (nice spelling by the way) dying? Listen to what you're saying. Women "need" to perform abortions to keep from dying. OK.

Right.

All in favor of Gabe suspending his activiy on this message board until he aquires a brain say "aye"......
 

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As stated in his book "Earth in the Balance", Gore's objective is to rid the world of the internal combustion engine by 2020.



This is America. Land of the free. I want my freedom (as long as it isn't at the expense of anyone else's life, liberty or property.) Gore wants to limit my freedom. He wants to tell me what to do with my money. He wants to tell me how to save for retirement. He wants to tell me that there are other people who need my money more than I do, so give it up or go to jail. He wants to tell my children that my belief in Christianity is "divisive" and "intolerant". He wants to punish free speech. He wants to appoint Supreme court judges that throw the text of the Constitution out the window and interpret it to mean anything they want it to mean. He wants to rid you of the ability to defend yourself from those that would violate your life, liberty and property, then protect the "rights" of that violator and "rehibilitate" him because it was the evil white European male who made him do whatever he did (unless of course it was a white criminal, then he did it out of "racial hatred.")



In short, Gore wants a government of men, not a government of law. He wants to rule over you and tell you what to do and think because he knows what is good for you.
 

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Re: Lighten up!

What ended the last Ice Age? Was it Global Warming? Maybe!

We DO know that the hole(s) in the ozone layer DO expand and contract.... Is this because annual output of pollutants increases and decreases? Maybe! Or depending on who you talk to, YES! If you just listen to conservatives and corporate spin-doctors, then no.

You don't know the answers to that question any more than I do. Now here's a question:

Should we just let corporations do whatever the hell they want when it is POSSIBLE that their actions may contribute to permanant environmental damage? I think so.

So don't come off like you are on the side of truth, because you're not, any more than I am.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Global warming

Actually, sorry. Though temperature fluctuates as the world comes in and out of ice ages, the world temperature is rising at a rate about 1000 times faster than normal. It should take millenia to notice a few-degree change world-wide, but it's happened in less than a decade. There is no other explanation besides human production of greenhouse gasses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Did you know?

Sorry, nay. Gabe knows his facts. Furthermore, abortion is a stickier issue than just "killing babies". At what point does a little zygote become a human being? Even the famous Christian philosopher St. Thomas Aquinas did not believe that a soul was present immediately after conception (and if there is no soul, there is no problem with aborting). According to him, God placed a soul in the fetus only after the fetus could easily be identified as human.

Gabe is also right--banning abortion will not in any way decrease it's frequency. Only more Planned Parenthoods, ease of obtaining contraception, better education, and yes more abstinence will result in a lower abortion rate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
But no matter what you do, don't take it over with you to Britain. The electoral system is idiotic and should be replaced with a direct election. Already at one point in history someone got more than 50% of the popular vote and still lost the electoral college. It's looking like this will be a second time for that.
 

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Here he goes with the name-calling!

And I didn't even start it. And if you want "straight facts", here's some: 80% of all media sources in the US are controlled by 12 different conglomerates. Are big corporations "liberal?" I think we'd both agree they would be stupid to be that way.

Who said conservatives are against the environment (and BTW, Abe, you're no conservative- you are a radical, strictly speaking)? Not me. But conservatives ARE against sensible protection of the environment. Sad, when you think of what a strong conservationist Teddy Roosevelt was.

No, Abe, I don't want to go back to living in huts and eating nuts and berries. And atomic energy is neither clean nor safe. Tons of radioactive waste (so much we don't know what to do with it), 3-mile island and Chernobyl should tell you that. Do YOU want to live near a nuclear power plant? Me neither.

As far as your benevolent corporations having the approval of the people, well, I don't think they are all bad. I have AT&T stock, for instance. (sigh) But are their interests more important than mine? Then why do they have so much political influence? It's not fair.

Anyway, Americans buy corporate crap because they don't have a choice, either through media brainwashing or simply because we have no choice. Got Windows? I thought so. Gotta Wal-mart within a few miles of your house? I'll bet you do. And I'll bet a lot of small businesses have closed up since Wal-Mart came to town, huh? I buy from local producers whenever I have a viable choice that isn't too expensive, and I'll bet most Americans do, as well.

And finally, Abe, nobody is trying to tell you what to eat. You can eat gravel for all I care. But meat is cheap here because it's subsidized by the government. Meat is much more costly to produce than other foods, and it causes all kinds of bad things. Sure, we should let people eat and do what they like, but we shouldn't SUBSIDIZE and encourage harmful, destructive activity.
 
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