Yea, I think that if Honda with their testing found that a easy breakin for their engines was best then that is what is happening to my bikes.
David
David
Engine Break-In
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I did it with my '04 V-Strom 1000. At 29,656 kms it runs great. Tons of power and doesn't use a drop of oil. I will do it again with my next new bike.
He makes a good point and can back it up with lots of examples.
I remember breaking in my Honda CB550 gently with highway miles and developing flat spots on the cams.
I remember breaking in my Honda CB550 gently with highway miles and developing flat spots on the cams.
I've followed this with every new bike I've bought and never had any trouble with low compression, oil burning or any other engine related problems. New engines don't "wear in", if they're not right from the factory they'll puke no matter what. The only reason for taking it easy on a new bike is to give the tires a chance to scrub off the mold-release compound and give the brake pads a chance to wear in. All that takes about 200 miles, do the first oil and filter change at 1000 miles or so, check over the nuts and bolts and just ride it.
Easy break ins are a relic from the bad old days of loose tolerances, crappy metallurgy and 3000 mile oil changes. They no longer apply to modern engines.
Easy break ins are a relic from the bad old days of loose tolerances, crappy metallurgy and 3000 mile oil changes. They no longer apply to modern engines.
Re: Engine Break-InWhat I hate about easy break-in's.
What I hate about easy break-in's.
There's no other way to say this other then it SUCKS!!
That's right, those easy by the book drive really slow with easy on the throttle take off's and vary your speed slightly directions suck!
I have no patience, that's why I ride a motorcycle, so I can use the power and speed and get to the front of the shopping mall parking and then park on the side walk right by the front door, because I have no patience!
SO to ask me to ride really slow and easy with my brand new bike for the first 500 miles or so is like asking me to just start off the honey moon with my hot new wife with a little slow kissing and wait 5 days before doing anything serious.
What I hate about easy break-in's.
There's no other way to say this other then it SUCKS!!
That's right, those easy by the book drive really slow with easy on the throttle take off's and vary your speed slightly directions suck!
I have no patience, that's why I ride a motorcycle, so I can use the power and speed and get to the front of the shopping mall parking and then park on the side walk right by the front door, because I have no patience!
SO to ask me to ride really slow and easy with my brand new bike for the first 500 miles or so is like asking me to just start off the honey moon with my hot new wife with a little slow kissing and wait 5 days before doing anything serious.
Re: Engine Break-InWhat I hate about easy break-in's.
I agree with the fast break-in technique. I have built a few car engines, none of which had extremely tight tolerences, but all of them have been sucessful builds using that method. New ring technology allows the top ring to seal much quicker than before with old cast iron rings. Something that is really good for a new engine is to find a hilly area and really let the motor compression- brake the vehicle, followed by uphill accelleration.
I agree with the fast break-in technique. I have built a few car engines, none of which had extremely tight tolerences, but all of them have been sucessful builds using that method. New ring technology allows the top ring to seal much quicker than before with old cast iron rings. Something that is really good for a new engine is to find a hilly area and really let the motor compression- brake the vehicle, followed by uphill accelleration.
He has the right idea, I've done exactly that, many times and my bikes run great, the last time I serviced my SV650S, I did a leak down test just for the hell of it, and it has 2% Leak down! awsome. I change my oil and filter at 20 miles, 50 miles, 250 miles and 1000 miles, then every 1500 miles. Never a problem and they live a hard live!
kpaul asks the hard questions.
Is this ground hog day? OK my questions are?
[*]If run it hard is the answer or ride as normal i.e don't take it easy, then why do all owners manuals from multiple manufacturers have the same type of break in period? It seems like it could be a major marketing advantage to say "From day 1 you can ride our new ZX-8R V-4 normally, no wasted hours of a slow break-in period" I don't buy any legal argument...
[*]Has this guy, mototuneusa, done a double blind study.. like gbrummett says "There's no other way to say this other then it SUCKS!!" until you have real facts and data it's an opinion or hypothesis
[*]Is this guy a mechanical engineer that has built factory engines? What are his qualifications? Has he published in SAE?
kpaul says follow the owner's manual, don't violate your warranty
Is this ground hog day? OK my questions are?
[*]If run it hard is the answer or ride as normal i.e don't take it easy, then why do all owners manuals from multiple manufacturers have the same type of break in period? It seems like it could be a major marketing advantage to say "From day 1 you can ride our new ZX-8R V-4 normally, no wasted hours of a slow break-in period" I don't buy any legal argument...
[*]Has this guy, mototuneusa, done a double blind study.. like gbrummett says "There's no other way to say this other then it SUCKS!!" until you have real facts and data it's an opinion or hypothesis
[*]Is this guy a mechanical engineer that has built factory engines? What are his qualifications? Has he published in SAE?
kpaul says follow the owner's manual, don't violate your warranty
Re: kpaul asks the hard questions.
Unfortunately when it comes to motorcycles Kpaul doesn't know his ass from his elbow. After you've come close to the two dozen motorcycles I''ve had, the 40 years I've ridden them, the over 750,000 miles I've put on them and the non-existant oil related breakdowns I've had you may feel free to comment, untill then may I offer the sage advice contained in the poster on my office wall
"How about a nice big cup of shut the f*ck up---think before you say something stupid"
Unfortunately when it comes to motorcycles Kpaul doesn't know his ass from his elbow. After you've come close to the two dozen motorcycles I''ve had, the 40 years I've ridden them, the over 750,000 miles I've put on them and the non-existant oil related breakdowns I've had you may feel free to comment, untill then may I offer the sage advice contained in the poster on my office wall
"How about a nice big cup of shut the f*ck up---think before you say something stupid"
Re: kpaul asks the hard questions.
I'll second that.
Perhaps riding it hard will give you better power, but perhaps the idea is to also strip the engine after every season.
I would rather follow the manufacturers advice since they have done plenty of study on their engines etc.
David
I'll second that.
Perhaps riding it hard will give you better power, but perhaps the idea is to also strip the engine after every season.
I would rather follow the manufacturers advice since they have done plenty of study on their engines etc.
David
Re: kpaul asks the hard questions.
there was a nice consensus and then you just had to go and get folks all worked up now....
there was a nice consensus and then you just had to go and get folks all worked up now....
Re: kpaul asks the hard questions.
Seriously, though, if the mototune method works great, is it detrimental to follow the owner's manual? Besides the obvious aggrivation of riding under low RPM etc...
Seriously, though, if the mototune method works great, is it detrimental to follow the owner's manual? Besides the obvious aggrivation of riding under low RPM etc...
Re: kpaul asks the hard questions.
I guess you missed longride's discovery. There is no KPaul, Ksquid or any other such Kschizoid Kperson. Ksomeone else has been scamming us. It's all a Kfraud.
I guess you missed longride's discovery. There is no KPaul, Ksquid or any other such Kschizoid Kperson. Ksomeone else has been scamming us. It's all a Kfraud.
I'm pretty sure this has been posted before.
I submitted this to complete the motorcycle hat trick.
I submitted this to complete the motorcycle hat trick.
What a load of horse manure!
Notice he doesn't explain exactly why his method should work better than the easy breakin.
Joe Minton has it right and he should know - he's an old fart Harley guy.
It doesn't matter how you break in an engine, fast or slow as long as the motor is warmed up before you start whatever break-in procedure you prefer.
Why?? Because the piston and rings travel the exact same path, even with ring rotation, during the first few miles. Whatever 'bumps' need to be worn off the cylinders by the rings will be worn off sooner - given a fast break-in or later - with a slow break-in. They'll bed in all the same, sooner or later.
The only caveat I would add is that it is critical that the pistons/rings be set up in the cylinder with the correct gap in the first place. If the piston is too tight it can easily seize without real gentle break-in. But, how many of you are still riding '60s Brit bikes besides me?
Notice he doesn't explain exactly why his method should work better than the easy breakin.
Joe Minton has it right and he should know - he's an old fart Harley guy.
It doesn't matter how you break in an engine, fast or slow as long as the motor is warmed up before you start whatever break-in procedure you prefer.
Why?? Because the piston and rings travel the exact same path, even with ring rotation, during the first few miles. Whatever 'bumps' need to be worn off the cylinders by the rings will be worn off sooner - given a fast break-in or later - with a slow break-in. They'll bed in all the same, sooner or later.
The only caveat I would add is that it is critical that the pistons/rings be set up in the cylinder with the correct gap in the first place. If the piston is too tight it can easily seize without real gentle break-in. But, how many of you are still riding '60s Brit bikes besides me?
Damn son, every 20, 50, 250, 1000 and 1500 after that is absurdly frequent!
Modern oils and filters on modern bikes don't need that kind of fanaticism. Every 3-4k will do you just fine unless you're riding all the time in the redline or on the track (good reasons to change it then). I put about 15-20k a year on my bikes and have never had a problem.
Modern oils and filters on modern bikes don't need that kind of fanaticism. Every 3-4k will do you just fine unless you're riding all the time in the redline or on the track (good reasons to change it then). I put about 15-20k a year on my bikes and have never had a problem.
kbashing
kpaul and shiznoodle are different souls...I just played along with the GPTB for awhile.. You guys need to move on..i.e eliminate the kbashing boys.. criticize the idea or in this case the questions not the person.. Take each one of my questions and tell me why I am wrong..Use Facts and data... i.e I took several identical motorcycles and used different methods for break-in. These were the results..
kpaul and shiznoodle are different souls...I just played along with the GPTB for awhile.. You guys need to move on..i.e eliminate the kbashing boys.. criticize the idea or in this case the questions not the person.. Take each one of my questions and tell me why I am wrong..Use Facts and data... i.e I took several identical motorcycles and used different methods for break-in. These were the results..
Of the 3 brand new bikes I've owned, I rode 'em for about 250 miles "real gentle like" then didn't worry about break in anymore. Changed the oil and filter once or twice during the first few thousand, then waited until the 5-6k check-up before taking it for a full service (so they could check/tighten the whole thing). Never had a problem and the bikes never leaked or exhibited odd engine behavior.
I buy used these days (so break in is moot), but only when bike appears to have been treated with kit gloves or the seller appears to have a clue, or has service records.
I buy used these days (so break in is moot), but only when bike appears to have been treated with kit gloves or the seller appears to have a clue, or has service records.
Re: kpaul asks the hard questions.
Just call me the resident contrarian. I just think folks should use facts and data on something this important. Personal experience is interesting but unless it is backed up with experimental evidence it doesn't prove any point of view.. Every manufacturer says the same thing in their owner's manual Are are they all wrong? If they are at least one would say bunk just ride your bike normally.. and they could advertise that point.
Just call me the resident contrarian. I just think folks should use facts and data on something this important. Personal experience is interesting but unless it is backed up with experimental evidence it doesn't prove any point of view.. Every manufacturer says the same thing in their owner's manual Are are they all wrong? If they are at least one would say bunk just ride your bike normally.. and they could advertise that point.
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