Motorcycle Forums banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Aging Cafe` Racer
Joined
·
8,715 Posts
That's impossible. The EPA is a Government Agency and as such is held to the highest proffessional and ethical standards, if they say the POS gets 100 miles to the gallon you can darn well bet it does and more!

Sheesh.........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
Truth

It is so comforting to know the statist truth tellers are looking out for us doing everything in their power to make sure we are not misled. Fraud is only fraud when it is committed by those evil executives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,447 Posts
Imagine how hard it's going to be when they start posting numbers for hydrogen cars.

Have you seen the Leaf ad where the driver comes home and plugs the house into the car and it lights up? I think a fuel-cell car what they're implying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,903 Posts
Cycle World casually mentioned the testing procedure in one E-test and it was a total joke (even if they don't point it out too strongly.)

I recall the test was a short loop with an average speed of 17 mph. You know, real world!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Oy, I'm not sure I should even comment here.

I'd be all for these things if someone, anyone, could tell the truth about them.

Edit: Wait, it seems he's got the conversion factor backwards. I don't know if he just wrote the wrong conversion factor or miscalculated using the wrong conversion factor. I'm too tired and busy to do the math now. Someone help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,903 Posts
The article didn't mention the test itself is a fraud.

This is from a CW test of the Zero:

The greatest claimed range is 114 miles in the city for the ZF9-equipped S, a figure based on the EPA’s UDDS (urban dynamometer driving schedule) test. We looked at the details of the EPA test online and can see how the Zero would make the number. The UDDS runs 7.45 miles and has an average speed of less than 20 mph. The vehicle comes to a complete stop 17 times and runs faster than 50 mph for all of 70 seconds. Acceleration is extremely modest. This could be real world for someone, but it wasn’t for us.

It's as if Big Oil! Invented that test. Instead Big Green in concert with Big Gov't did.

Kenneth wants to buy a relic replica Honda.

I say, "good choice."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,447 Posts
Fraud:
"deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage."

Explain to me how the EPA is perpetrating "fraud" when they publish their test methodology for anyone to see (including the guy who wrote Seru's article).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,903 Posts
Fraud:
"deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage."

Explain to me how the EPA is perpetrating "fraud" when they publish their test methodology for anyone to see (including the guy who wrote Seru's article).
So you already knew about that test loop?

Nice try. Don't hurt your back moving those goal posts. I hope you forgive my vocabulary choices.

I'll let you select the appropriate word to describe that joke of a test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
So you already knew about that test loop?

Nice try. Don't hurt your back moving those goal posts. I hope you forgive my vocabulary choices.

I'll let you select the appropriate word to describe that joke of a test.
Let's be fair about this. The article in question is about how the EPA is calculating MPGe, or "miles per gallon" as applicable to EVs. It also appears that the author might have gotten something very wrong, specifically, the conversion factor, which he sites in the article as "33.7 gallons per KWh." It's 33.7 KWh per gallon. If he used the wrong conversion factor to do the calculations and not just misstated it, he would have arrived at an erroneous result. I haven't checked the math, but I suspect his whole conclusion is backwards.

None of this has any effect on the test loop, however, which seems to be a mockery of good sense. There's no question that the government has an interest in developing the e-vehicle market, being that they've invested a lot of our money in it. Things like this make me worry that they're being forced down our throats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,903 Posts
Let's be fair about this. The article in question is about how the EPA is calculating MPGe, or "miles per gallon" as applicable to EVs. It also appears that the author might have gotten something very wrong, specifically, the conversion factor, which he sites in the article as "33.7 gallons per KWh." It's 33.7 KWh per gallon. If he used the wrong conversion factor to do the calculations and not just misstated it, he would have arrived at an erroneous result. I haven't checked the math, but I suspect his whole conclusion is backwards.

None of this has any effect on the test loop, however, which seems to be a mockery of good sense. There's no question that the government has an interest in developing the e-vehicle market, being that they've invested a lot of our money in it. Things like this make me worry that they're being forced down our throats.
You mean like when we were going to "grow our own fuel?"

We'll never get rid of the ethanol mandate. What's worse than the gov't picking winners and losers is that it never gets off the loser. It rides that pony into the sunset!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Yeah, something like that.

I actually think alternative fuels are very promising, but not the way that mess has been handled. We have to figure out how to make enough of a viable fuel. Growing it in the traditional sense ain't gonna cut it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,447 Posts
So you already knew about that test loop?
No, I simply wasn't stupid enough to think that a car that doesn't use gas would have "gas-mileage" figures based on anything other than someone's test scenario and assumptions. What did you expect them to do anyway, the old "Shell Platformate" test where they have big glass bottles of fuel mounted on two identical cars and see which one stops first?

The Platformate Style of Reporting

The Second-Most-Expensive Car Commercial Ever Made - Inside Line
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,903 Posts
No, I simply wasn't stupid enough to think that a car that doesn't use gas would have "gas-mileage" figures based on anything other than someone's test scenario and assumptions. What did you expect them to do anyway, the old "Shell Platformate" test where they have big glass bottles of fuel mounted on two identical cars and see which one stops first?

The Platformate Style of Reporting

The Second-Most-Expensive Car Commercial Ever Made - Inside Line
So you're basically admitting that all these range claims are complete bullshyt?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
Long term review

To give us the proper perspective we need a long term review of an electric bike in a practical everyday usage scenario. Does anyone know of one? I could not find any.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,447 Posts
So you're basically admitting that all these range claims are complete bullshyt?
OF COURSE IT'S BULLSHEEIT

What else could they possibly be? You're comparing a car that uses a refined liquid fossil fuel to a car that uses transmitted eletrical energy. Surely you didn't think those numbers were anything else but a fabricated number to use for comparisons, did you?

Hell they've never gotten it right when it's just one type of fuel in one type of engine. Like Mr. Duke said, it's just a number; a scale you hold up to each vehicle to compare.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Like Mr. Duke said, it's just a number; a scale you hold up to each vehicle to compare.
Except it isn't.

MPGe is presented in a context that is familiar to consumers, in this case, "Miles Per Gallon." One would then have to assume that the relationship between MPG and MPGe is sound and accurate. I believe it's also meant to be a meaningful comparison between fossil fuel-powered vehicles and EVs, but even if it wasn't, the way it's derived all but ensures that it will be used that way.

If we were comparing just EVs to other EVs, I think a much more useful scale would be MPKWh (Miles per kilowatt hour) or even MPCH (Miles per charge hour), etc., etc.

If we're simply referring to the EPA range estimates, Kevin's advice to use it as a measuring stick between EV's is fine, except it still doesn't accurately portray range in a manner that people understand. Since EVs' range suffer at the expense of performance (and vice versa) worse than ICEs, it's a misleading number. We might advise people to take that EPA estimated range and subtract 30 or 40% to get in a realistic ballpark.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top