EU Laws to Put Brake on Bikers.
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It's a good thing if you have the right VFR
I actually like the directives but it will probably have a devasting effect on the industry... However, it might just save the priviledge to ride a motorcycle for those us who have the skill and proper type of bike (high performance sportbike). Can't see Buz's geezer glide doing to well on this test Things like ABS might become standard equipment. I think most folks who ride now would pass if we were riding a VFR or BMW with a linked ABS system.... Having ABS on my car saved my life once....
But I don't see this type of law happening in the land of the free and home of the brave </a>
Good article
I actually like the directives but it will probably have a devasting effect on the industry... However, it might just save the priviledge to ride a motorcycle for those us who have the skill and proper type of bike (high performance sportbike). Can't see Buz's geezer glide doing to well on this test Things like ABS might become standard equipment. I think most folks who ride now would pass if we were riding a VFR or BMW with a linked ABS system.... Having ABS on my car saved my life once....
But I don't see this type of law happening in the land of the free and home of the brave </a>
Good article
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3,415 Posts
This is what happens when you give up your sovreinty, some fat-ass kraut eurocrat dictating your traffic laws...
Britain needs to tell Brussels and the rest of the common market to ***** off, flood the Chunnel and fill the chanel with flaming oil...That should keep the euro-trash in froggyland where they belong.
Britain needs to tell Brussels and the rest of the common market to ***** off, flood the Chunnel and fill the chanel with flaming oil...That should keep the euro-trash in froggyland where they belong.
Spoken like a true Bonney Lake resident. 
Don't worry you will be safe in your compound, you might want to feed your Rotwielers sometime though.. Last time I rode by I thought they were going to jump the fence... You have them trained to go after squids don't ya.
(Everyone thinks you folks who live out there are survivalist with barbed wire compouds, actually we are just jealous) When the end time comes will you let me in for a meal just for old time sake.. C rations are OK.. But I like the MREs better
Don't worry you will be safe in your compound, you might want to feed your Rotwielers sometime though.. Last time I rode by I thought they were going to jump the fence... You have them trained to go after squids don't ya. (Everyone thinks you folks who live out there are survivalist with barbed wire compouds, actually we are just jealous) When the end time comes will you let me in for a meal just for old time sake..
C rations are OK.. But I like the MREs better
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14 Posts
I have mixed feelings. The high cost is bad, but I do think that making sure people can perform emergency stops etc from actual highway speeds is a good thing. As a new rider I have not had the opportunity to do this kind of practice enough if at all under supervision. I took the MSF course and I found the low speed braking drills to be a good place to start, but I didn't feel like they gave me any confidence in high speed braking. I am looking forward to taking a more advanced course this summer.
Nadim
Nadim
The first of the two directives (a new 'break and swerve' course in which they perform high-speed manoeuvres, including an emergency stop at 50mph) is aleady in effect over here in Holland.
Actually it's a bit more sustantial than that. The driver exam for a motorcycle is really 3 exams that you have to pass:
1) Theory - a bit like the theory for a car exam, but with bike-specific questions (position on the road, tire grip, etc.). You have to do this even if you have a car licence.
2) Special manoeuvres - there are 13 (!) special manoeuvres of which you have to do 7 at the exam. Stuff like figure 8, slow slalom, high speed swerve, high speed slalom, emergency stop, low speed manoeuvering, etc. You can see them here:
http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/report/2941/2 and here
http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/report/2941/3
3) Final exam - this is a normal driving exam, i.e. you drive about 45 minutes in traffic with the examinator following you in a car. He gives you directions by radio (you wear an ear piece).
Yes this is very comprehensive and very expenisive. On the average you need 30-40 lessons (50 min/lesson) in order to pass the exams succesfully (a lesson costs around EUR 45 ($50), the exams EUR 100 and 200). So you're spening a lot of money to get your licence.
Oh, you also have to wear full protection (helmet, jacket, pants & boots) during the lessons & 2 riding exams.
Does this suck?
NO!
What happens is 2 things:
-people who want to get their licence & ride a bike are very motivated
-people who pass the exams really know how to ride a bike safely
In the beginning of the process I was really pissed off at all the hassle. Now 2 months after passing the final exam (and 2 months riding, 3000km), I'm glad I got the training that I got. I know how to ride well and safely. Don't forget thet this is one of the most densly populated countires in the world with lots of traffic. So you really need some training if you don't want to kill yourself.
But then again, I guess that some Americans will view killing themselves due to incompetence as their Constitutional right .. Darwinism anyone?
Actually it's a bit more sustantial than that. The driver exam for a motorcycle is really 3 exams that you have to pass:
1) Theory - a bit like the theory for a car exam, but with bike-specific questions (position on the road, tire grip, etc.). You have to do this even if you have a car licence.
2) Special manoeuvres - there are 13 (!) special manoeuvres of which you have to do 7 at the exam. Stuff like figure 8, slow slalom, high speed swerve, high speed slalom, emergency stop, low speed manoeuvering, etc. You can see them here:
http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/report/2941/2 and here
http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/report/2941/3
3) Final exam - this is a normal driving exam, i.e. you drive about 45 minutes in traffic with the examinator following you in a car. He gives you directions by radio (you wear an ear piece).
Yes this is very comprehensive and very expenisive. On the average you need 30-40 lessons (50 min/lesson) in order to pass the exams succesfully (a lesson costs around EUR 45 ($50), the exams EUR 100 and 200). So you're spening a lot of money to get your licence.
Oh, you also have to wear full protection (helmet, jacket, pants & boots) during the lessons & 2 riding exams.
Does this suck?
NO!
What happens is 2 things:
-people who want to get their licence & ride a bike are very motivated
-people who pass the exams really know how to ride a bike safely
In the beginning of the process I was really pissed off at all the hassle. Now 2 months after passing the final exam (and 2 months riding, 3000km), I'm glad I got the training that I got. I know how to ride well and safely. Don't forget thet this is one of the most densly populated countires in the world with lots of traffic. So you really need some training if you don't want to kill yourself.
But then again, I guess that some Americans will view killing themselves due to incompetence as their Constitutional right .. Darwinism anyone?
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17,449 Posts
Hey longride.
Looks like you were right. Except that instead of just banning those dangerous motorcycles the bureaucrats will simply make it nearly impossible for people to get licenses.
The helmet nazis who hang out here have no room to complain. After all this new licensing system will reduce the amount of "social cost " of uninsured bikers becoming a public burden, thus saving these people a few bucks on their taxes and insurance. You can bet that with the reduced accidents and thus less healthcare burden that insurance and taxes will go down. (snicker)
Your public officials know what's good for you. So just pay your taxes and shut the fOck up.
Looks like you were right. Except that instead of just banning those dangerous motorcycles the bureaucrats will simply make it nearly impossible for people to get licenses.
The helmet nazis who hang out here have no room to complain. After all this new licensing system will reduce the amount of "social cost " of uninsured bikers becoming a public burden, thus saving these people a few bucks on their taxes and insurance. You can bet that with the reduced accidents and thus less healthcare burden that insurance and taxes will go down. (snicker)
Your public officials know what's good for you. So just pay your taxes and shut the fOck up.
Idiots.
I am all for reasonable HP/age regulations (I remember myself at 18), but this is over the top.
It will not spell the end of bikers, but significantly dampen the popularity. Endresult being more cars on the street, and I am sure that's exactly opposite of what the euro-green-sociodemocrats wanted.
Morons.
I am all for reasonable HP/age regulations (I remember myself at 18), but this is over the top.
It will not spell the end of bikers, but significantly dampen the popularity. Endresult being more cars on the street, and I am sure that's exactly opposite of what the euro-green-sociodemocrats wanted.
Morons.
Before you all get your panties in a bunch, I would like to point out a couple of things. I grew up with a system (in Europe) where it was 14-yo-: 50cc; 16-y-o: 125cc; 18-y-o: anything you want. The proposed directive would raise it to 19: maybe it will go through, maybe not, but I doubt that this will cause a major setback for the industry, since it would not be a substantial change from present rules. Consider this: MOst of my friends dreamed of bikes and a year's delay would just mean that they would wait and then buy at 19. The bike culture is different there: just look at a bike parking lot in any major city: I live in LA and nowhere in LA I ever see the number of bikes one sees in an average Italian city, except for weekends at the Rock Store, I guess. Also, if any of you has ever driven in Europe, you would know how truly dangerous it can be (I mean actual driving yourself, not seeing it from the bus). The idea that a MSF-type course can prepare you for that is ridiculous. The Dutch test actually seems just slightly tougher than the one in California, where we have to do some maneuvers in the parking lot. I wish they had a high-speed braking test here, BTW. None of this matters to the US, anyway: none of those measures has a snowball's chance in hell of being introduced here and, more importantly, being passed, IMHO. The question to ask is why exactly changing the test would cost someone 500 *additional* pounds? At Friday's rate that's about an additional $945: what do they pay DMV examiners in the UK and can I get that job?
Well, (being Euro myself), I think that 14-yo-: 50cc; 16-y-o: 125cc; 18-y-o: anything you want; is a perfectly reasonable. It gives you time to grow as a rider.
What I really object is 1) the 19-yo limit - if you can vote with 18, why can't you be trusted to ride what you want; 2) Some 24-yo limit mentioned, for the same reason; and most importantly 3) the added cost, which would have prevented me getting a license way-back-when for sure.
What I really object is 1) the 19-yo limit - if you can vote with 18, why can't you be trusted to ride what you want; 2) Some 24-yo limit mentioned, for the same reason; and most importantly 3) the added cost, which would have prevented me getting a license way-back-when for sure.
Re: It's a good thing if you have the right VFR
Unfortunately, this looks more and more like the land of the formerly free.
I saw yesterday that we now have the "Directorate of Management" in the "Department of Homeland Security". Directorate of Management? USSR 1976?
Unfortunately, this looks more and more like the land of the formerly free.
I saw yesterday that we now have the "Directorate of Management" in the "Department of Homeland Security". Directorate of Management? USSR 1976?
"Thanks for your pompass post emiles."
My, my, touched a sensitive nerve have we?
The problem is not you killing yourself (Darwin would approve), but you splattering 1/2 your brain on the sidewalk and leaving enough in your skull to live. Now society (or your insurance i.e. everyone else, or do you believe in Santa?) gets to pay a zillion $$ to keep you alive till you die of old age.
My, my, touched a sensitive nerve have we?
The problem is not you killing yourself (Darwin would approve), but you splattering 1/2 your brain on the sidewalk and leaving enough in your skull to live. Now society (or your insurance i.e. everyone else, or do you believe in Santa?) gets to pay a zillion $$ to keep you alive till you die of old age.
"Also, if any of you has ever driven in Europe, you would know how truly dangerous it can be (I mean actual driving yourself, not seeing it from the bus). The idea that a MSF-type course can prepare you for that is ridiculous. The Dutch test actually seems just slightly tougher than the one in California, where we have to do some maneuvers in the parking lot."
Guess what, after Malta (of all places) Holland has the lowest number of traffic deaths / million km's in the world .. and it has one of the highest population densities in the world. So I guess good training pays off ...
BTW as for traffic deaths (# deaths/million km's), the EU average is way lower than the US .. and that includes countries like Poland and Portugal ..
Guess what, after Malta (of all places) Holland has the lowest number of traffic deaths / million km's in the world .. and it has one of the highest population densities in the world. So I guess good training pays off ...
BTW as for traffic deaths (# deaths/million km's), the EU average is way lower than the US .. and that includes countries like Poland and Portugal ..
Hear, hear! I don't think many of us in the US would argue against it being a good thing for cagers to know something about how motorcycles behave!
As to the rest, well, the expense doesn't seem to deter too many folks in the EU from getting motorcycle or car licenses, does it? And it does result in drivers/riders who know what they're doing. And even here, driving is supposed to be a privilege, not a right (discounting the fact that the layout of our cities, and paucity of adequate public transportation, make it a necessity).
But of course, such training would never be required here. Riders would simply point out that we don't make car drivers take any of this expensive training, so it's unfair. And the car drivers would never go for it.
You can't fly an airplane without training.
Excellent Post...I agree with you.. I hope to complete my Private Pilot's license this summer. I guess some folks will think that I should be able to fly a plane without the comprehensive training that is required...
Excellent Post...I agree with you.. I hope to complete my Private Pilot's license this summer. I guess some folks will think that I should be able to fly a plane without the comprehensive training that is required...
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