[Joe_Momma]

Production liter class to fat and wide

FX bikes are slower than Superbikes because:

Not enough corner clearance. Hurts entry and mid corner speed. Inline-4 SBKs are slightly lacking here compare to the twins and the one liter bikes are that much wider.

Not enough chassis development. Wonder why Buckmaster has an R7 framed R1?

The FX style bikes are allowed in the Canadian Superbike races and now in British Superbike races and the Honda/Ducati style twin still beats them for the most part.

The twin is a slim and powerful package, especially now with the shorter stroke engines. They are still slim, have good torque and great top end power. It will be hard to beat.

 

[nitrofly]

Too bad the gap between the riding abilities of JoeBlow is somewhat larger than the gap between the SBK's and showroom models.



If the machines on showroom floors were made to reflect the average rider's ability (thank F*k they're not) what kind of machines do you think we would all be riding?



Are you *sure* you can access every aspect of a superdream's performance envelope??!

 

[granny]

I really like the Formula Extreme format but as noted in http://www.amasuperbike.com/xtremesbk121201.htm, at the December 2001 Dunlop tire test "Shawn Higbee's best was a 1:53.2 on his GSX-R1000 and Mike Hale's best lap on the Erion 929 was 1:54.821, a full five seconds slower than Nicky Hayden." I say this not out of criticism, Formula Extreme doesn't have to be as fast as Superbike, the class is plenty fast with great riders and offers great racing.

 

[1747]

Re: Production liter class to fat and wide

Wow, it always amazes me when I go to the track, talk to riders and crew chiefs, write the story--and at least one of you guy always knows more about it than they do! Nobody at Fontana said anything about a lack of ground clearance. Thanks!

 

[granny]

"What kind of machines do you think we would all be riding?", We'd be riding something like Suzuki Bandit 600's (which perform better than most riders). But that wouldn't be so bad, it'd still be a motorbike and would beat the heck out of driving a minivan

 

[3655]

Re: Production liter class to fat and wide

I heard that an RC51 can beat a CBX; why do you think that is?

 

[speedsport]

Re: Production liter class to fat and wide

Tell'em like it is JB, my thoughts exactly!, tell Pridmore and the others not to lean'em over so far.

 

[speedsport]

Re: Production liter class to fat and wide

Because Burns is riding the RC51 and YOU are riding the CBX!!

 

[nitrofly]

yeah - but if the max performance bike we were allowed to have was a bandit 600...then I doubt we'dbe allowed such dangerous things as minivans.



speaking of which wouldn't it be excellent if to drive a car, you first had to drive a bike for a year and 'graduate' from 2 wheels to 4.



it'd be cool if there were no cars or trucks on the roads...just bikes. rush hour would turn into a monster GP!

 

[DucButt]

Re: Production liter class to fat and wide

I was wondering why I haven't seen a Morbidelli at an FX race ;-)

 

[sculptor666]

slightly off topic but,



what's kawasaki's plan with the zx-6r 636? does anyone think that'll be campaigned in superstock next year? or keep the current 6r platform for racing and market the 636 to replace some of the dinosaurs in their lineup.



america needs a GP1 track

 

[33421]

I, for one, rue the loss of the 750 class. Suzuki may keep building them since they own the class, but once 1000cc 4 cyclinders are sanctioned for SB that may go away as well. With no more than 5-10 lbs separating 600s from 1000s, its pretty obvious the Japanese factories have refined the 4 cylinder format to a razor's edge weight-wise. Bikes using existing layouts will only have marginal improvement without a significant change in applied materials / manufacturing tech or cost. The V-Twins are heavier than the in-line fours, and the V-fours are heavier still.



However, I think that a new class of light or ultra-lite sportbikes has an opening; perhaps a single or inline twin.



Ideas? I believe Ducati is now running 104x58 b/s on their racing twins. If Honda were to adapt a similiar ratio and introduce an oval-piston 6 valve (not 8) cylinder, this could yield a 750cc single of similiar stroke with a rev ceiling of 11,500 rpm in street form. This should yield 80-90 rear wheel horsepower. In a 400 class sized ultra-lite chassis, this could probably be brought in at under 320lbs or better. I know, balance issues exist, but Germany based singles classes are yielding 850cc and up with contra-rotating cranks etc.



Twins. Maybe a short stroke parallel twin. In-lines are the lightest format, and if they worked out the balance issues, this would yield a 750 lighter than the current 600s with similiar power, or possibly a 1000 lighter than any of the existing open bikes.



Personally, I would trade weight for horsepower if one of the factories could bring a new class of sport bike in at under 330 lbs. Anyone been paying attention to the supermotard class?



And with GP inspired multi-cylinder Vee1000s looming as state of the art street platforms, we may end up taking as many steps back in terms of weight as we do forward.

 

[DucButt]

Re: FX photos

Burnsie:

Photo 1 (Tom Kipp) - you mean 0.8mph, right?

Photo 2 (Pretty in pink) - If that arm had been moving 0.8mph faster, we would have gotten to see more. Nice frame sliders, though.

 

[DataDan]

Two big factors (prolly lots more subtleties than I'll ever know about):

1) Mike Hale identified this one: money. But there's more to it than just cash. An organization that's well funded and has well-established connections--to the shock and fork suppliers, to the tire mfr, to the guy who does computer analysis on mountains of data collected in testing--and has its own engineering staff to make sense of all that information, can develop the package more effectively. I would guess the Superbike teams trounce the FX teams in the budget department.

2) Street bikes aren't race bikes. As I understand the rules, Superbike doesn't allow the frame to be modified from stock. So, it has to be designed from the beginning to withstand loads imposed by world-class riders running the stickiest slicks available. There are likely drawbacks to such a structure on a streetbike--cost if nothing else--so the R1 and 954 are at a disadvantage when slicks are fitted and a professional rider is up. Thus Buckmaster uses an R7 frame. If the GSXR1K shares the 750's frame, that could be a key advantage for it.

 

[painter_1]

john B. you said just add some compression and better suspension . Did you read the new road racing world they were doing the same test. the GSXR1000 kicked but on the track there too. you should read their side bar on the suspension. The traxton dynamics sups. guy rated the bikes, said the Honda and and the gixxer forks were total crap. the R1 and zx9 weren't much better. {see you are a GOD}. have minnie put some Ohlin's fork's on that gixxer and send him to the next FX RACE. Bet he make's the grid.

 

[painter_1]

As you can tell, I recieved straight A's in spelling and puncuation

 

[schlaxn]

Re: ZX6R 636

In Europe, Kawa offers a "down-bore-kit" for the ZX-6R for those, who want to compete in amateur supersport races. There's a Kawa-636-Cup too.

 

[gte619e]

Get a few friends together and it can still be a GP. There might be a lot of moving obstacles (most of them blindly moving), but that just makes it more interesting. On the flip side, maybe there should be a new race series, one with soccer moms on cell phones in suburbans driving around the course.

 

[banda]

Someone's ego too fat and wide

All right, smart a$$, did you ask anyone about ground clearance? Is your smart a$$ patronizing response to the reader based on your knowledge that there is no cornering clearance difference between superbikes and FX bikes? Maybe you could address the question instead of being a whiny *****. You print pukes need to learn a thing or two about how to control yourselves when readers ask questions immediately. Have minime explain it to you. He's gracious and understanding (for the most part) under cross-examination. You, however, come off as a hostile witness.

 

[CanuckBusa]

Re: Production liter class to fat and wide

i think the gixxer1000 engine is 'marginally' wider than the 750. so you should be able to lean it over pretty well.