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Snuggles
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I'm pretty sure it was during and just before WWII. I remember reading that after WWI, and after Europe decided to allow Germany to build back up, all war planning was geared towards the theory of the US attacking Europe.

I also read several stories about French military being...well, less than charming when the US arrived in France during WWII. There were a bunch of stories from soldiers telling how the French military would freely let the US military how they were doing everything wrong.

Realistically, both countries thrive on using stereotypes to classify each society. We are the dumb, fat Americans, and they are the smelly surrender-monkeys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
..I wonder when we here in the US of A started hating the French? After all, the French backed us in our Revolution against England, gave us the Statue of Liberty, loaned us a few excellent commanding generals in the war of 1812, negotiated peace between the indigenous Indians and white settlers, let us purchase half of the gulf states for peanuts...etc..etc..even in modern times were avaition-automobile pioneers and stood shoulder to shoulder fighting faschisim. In both world wars France had close ties to the United States, before and after. When did we start hating each other?

Did it have anything to do with the '57 Renault Daulphene? That car could start a conflict on it's own.
As far as I can tell, it really got going when the French had the good sense not to follow Dubya into that asinine Iraqi mess. BTW, they were right there with us for Gulf War 1, as were our other allies.

This issue bothers me too; many of the basic principles on which our nation was founded came directly from the French. Ok, so they needed our help to end the WW1 stalemate, and got overrun by the Nazis. The French Resistance was remarkable and effective. The French did a fairly good job of divesting themselves of their colonial role; albeit not as smoothly as the British.

French chicks are cool. Mirage jets are way cool. The Panhard line of autos were vastly superior to anything competing with them. VIVE Le' France, or something like that.
 

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The Toad
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I think it...

..I wonder when we here in the US of A started hating the French? After all, the French backed us in our Revolution against England, gave us the Statue of Liberty, loaned us a few excellent commanding generals in the war of 1812, negotiated peace between the indigenous Indians and white settlers, let us purchase half of the gulf states for peanuts...etc..etc..even in modern times were avaition-automobile pioneers and stood shoulder to shoulder fighting faschisim. In both world wars France had close ties to the United States, before and after. When did we start hating each other?

Did it have anything to do with the '57 Renault Daulphene? That car could start a conflict on it's own.
...was "Le Car" that started the previous round. Then when things were starting to simmer down they had to go and import the Renault Alliance.
 

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Snuggles
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The US/French mudslinging has been around way before the Gulf Wars. Most of the Barbs thrown originate from military issues. The French didn’t handle the Vietnam problem very well in the beginning which lead to several jokes on our military’s side, and I believe resulted in us getting involved. Germany’s involvement in WWII was directly related to Europe, specifically France, refusing to take a harder line on limiting Germany’s power after WWI. Than there was the French and Indian War…which for some reason we get blamed for the treatment of Indians, but France is let off the hook…odd.

But as far as stereotypes go, France will always be the snooty jackasses and the US will be the arrogant bastards. Plenty of jokes to go around on both sides of the fence.

I built a few Mirage jet models when I was a kid. That and the A10 Warthog were some of the more fun models to put together.
 

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Aging Cafe` Racer
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Peugeot 505's are pretty nice looking cars, you still see quit a few of them around Seattle. I think they compare well with the 80's Mercedes and Volvo diesel's
 

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The war in Iraq would not have been necessary if France (and Germany) had backed us.

But, then, they never were that reliable. Remember their staunch cooperation with our attack on Libya in the '80s?
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
The US/French mudslinging has been around way before the Gulf Wars. Most of the Barbs thrown originate from military issues. The French didn't handle the Vietnam problem very well in the beginning which lead to several jokes on our military's side, and I believe resulted in us getting involved.
Stanley Karanov's "History of Vietnam" has an extensive analysis of the French Indochina experience. They were up against the same things we were: the only option was to invade and utterly destroy North Vietnam, and then remain as an occupying force fighting an unending insurgency. Same went for South Vietnam; a lot of the citizens considered the French and the US as a colonial power holding up their national re-unification.

Occupying other nations just doesn't work too well. The locals don't like it. You've got to be willing to go to some pretty awful extremes, like the Nazis and the Soviets did to make it work. And many times, you'll never make it work.
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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What do you mean if France and Germany backed us? The LEAST they could have done was honor the oil embargo and stop doing business with Iraq. They had lots of sweetheart 'cheap oil for technology' deals going behind the scenes which were found out shortly after the war started. They didn't want a war to f&ck that up since they were getting oil for pennies. Some 'allies'!
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
The war in Iraq would not have been necessary if France (and Germany) had backed us.

But, then, they never were that reliable. Remember their staunch cooperation with our attack on Libya in the '80s?
There is a considerable body of evidence that Cheney and friends had planned the invasion of Iraq BEFORE the election and/or 911. Then there is the equally large body of evidence that the excuses for invading Iraq were, at best, rather strained.

The war in Iraq is about oil and corporate profits. What Germany and France did or didn't do is utterly irrelevant.
 

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The Toad
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Umm....

As far as I can tell, it really got going when the French had the good sense not to follow Dubya into that asinine Iraqi mess. BTW, they were right there with us for Gulf War 1, as were our other allies.

This issue bothers me too; many of the basic principles on which our nation was founded came directly from the French. Ok, so they needed our help to end the WW1 stalemate, and got overrun by the Nazis. The French Resistance was remarkable and effective. The French did a fairly good job of divesting themselves of their colonial role; albeit not as smoothly as the British.

French chicks are cool. Mirage jets are way cool. The Panhard line of autos were vastly superior to anything competing with them. VIVE Le' France, or something like that.
... Twas the US revolution that set the world on fire and ended thousands of years of aristocratic rule. Left to the froggies alone they'd have never had Bastille Day.

Anyhoo, don't believe the propaganda. I've had several relatives visit France recently and they tell me that they had no trouble with America haters. The news doesn't tell you what the average European thinks of the US. All those stories are designed to support ABCNBCNPRCBSCNNMCNBC's favored political party. Europe's lefty elites hate us but the only way to make them like us would be to declare the USA a Soviet Republic and follow them into the trash heap of history. I'm very happy to be hated by a buncha abject euro cowards.

If the French people were all a buncha whiny cowardly lefty fops then Sarkozy wouldn't be in the driver's seat.
 

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The Toad
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The USA...

Yeah, I read that on Moveon.org too! :rolleyes:
.... keeps plans on file for attacking just about every country on Earth. The Germans have plans to attack Russia and France. Every country does this.

I hear all this moveon crap from my wife's relatives. Funny how they were all silent when Clowntoon was murdering Serbs to protect the strategic mines in the Balkans.... er I mean covering up his sexual escapades er wait that's not it... oh I've got it he was resisting ethnic cleansing, yeah, that's it. Ethnic cleansing. LOL! Funny how he didn't lift a finger against the ethnic cleansing in Rwanda even though they begged for help. No scandal to cover up at the time.

All wars are about economics. Except Clowntoon's. His were simply to cover up his crimes. A far worse motivation than protecting strategic interests.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
.... keeps plans on file for attacking just about every country on Earth. The Germans have plans to attack Russia and France. Every country does this.

I hear all this moveon crap from my wife's relatives. Funny how they were all silent when Clowntoon was murdering Serbs to protect the strategic mines in the Balkans.... er I mean covering up his sexual escapades er wait that's not it... oh I've got it he was resisting ethnic cleansing, yeah, that's it. Ethnic cleansing. LOL! Funny how he didn't lift a finger against the ethnic cleansing in Rwanda even though they begged for help. No scandal to cover up at the time.

All wars are about economics. Except Clowntoon's. His were simply to cover up his crimes. A far worse motivation than protecting strategic interests.
Oh gee, Bill got a BJ in the White House and gets impeached. Bush invades and occupies a sovereign nation that was no threat to us, kills hundreds of thousand of civilians and what, 4,000 US soldiers, makes us look like Nazis to the rest of the world, and generally destroys the US economy along the way (the shyt is just beginning to hit the fan, I assure you), and you come up with a BJ. Nice going, I wouldn't try to explain Bush's actions either.
 

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The Toad
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Ha!

Oh gee, Bill got a BJ in the White House and gets impeached. Bush invades and occupies a sovereign nation that was no threat to us, kills hundreds of thousand of civilians and what, 4,000 US soldiers, makes us look like Nazis to the rest of the world, and generally destroys the US economy along the way (the shyt is just beginning to hit the fan, I assure you), and you come up with a BJ. Nice going, I wouldn't try to explain Bush's actions either.
How many people does a criminal president have to murder to be unacceptable? I guess the few thousand corpses Clowntoon left laying about is perfectly fine, eh? As long as he's got that "D" behind his name you guys just loooove a murderer. Heck, how long has KKK member Robery Byrd been around? Or the murderer Kennedy? Oh wait, I forgot. He only murdered one girl. Perfectly acceptable to democrats apparently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
How many people does a criminal president have to murder to be unacceptable? I guess the few thousand corpses Clowntoon left laying about is perfectly fine, eh? As long as he's got that "D" behind his name you guys just loooove a murderer. Heck, how long has KKK member Robery Byrd been around? Or the murderer Kennedy? Oh wait, I forgot. He only murdered one girl. Perfectly acceptable to democrats apparently.
If you honestly can't perceive a difference in how this nation operates and what our political situation is today versus how it did when Clinton was President, then there's nothing I can say to change your mind. As far as I'm concerned, it's night and day. The last election seems to show a lot of other Americans think so too, including Republicans. And it will take a major, major, f-up for the Dems to lose the 08 election.

People are figuring out these bozos are evil, self serving hypocritical bastards who don't even pretend to obey the law or have principles. They're sick of it, and their voting reflects it.
 
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