Whoo hoo. First post. I think that it is a waste of talent to have Pascal Picotte and Mike Smith ride this machine. Harley Davidson has had 7 years to get this bike to work, and has failed. Meanwhile Ducati, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki have all had their piece of the top step of the box. Even Aprilia in WSBK has had success in only their second year! I think Harley Davidson should just pull the plug on this stillborn project. Time for a clean sheeet redesign. Everytime the VR-1000 has a power and torque improvement so does every other manufacturer's machine. As far as internal engineering capabilities go... when did Cosworth and Ford become internal??? Outside of Ford and HD having the same year of birth (1903) why else would Ford have signed on with some loser organization other than for advertising exposure? After they both celebrate their 100th year, this partnership will end. Harley claims that they do not have information from European and Asian racing series for developmental work on the VR project but that kind of argument does not hold water as far as Aprilia is concerned. Harley is going to disappoint as usual this year, and I will be the first to clap when they do.
H-D Restructuring Superbike Program
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Agreed, Harley needs a clean-sheet program. They seem to make the same mistakes over and over again. It has to be embarrassing for them, especially with unlimited resources like Ford Cosworth and Porsche. They need to shoot that old VR dog and get a pup. But, like Harley owners themselves, they just can't let go of the past and move on to the future. They'll be contenders if they want it bad enough. I will cheer the loudest when they put it on the podium. Pascal deserves it for his patience.
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1 Posts
I'd like to seen H-D SBK street version of the bike!
Go to Poland
Where H-D sold a street version to homologate for Superbike racing back in '94. (I think) They were priced at around $50,000.
Where H-D sold a street version to homologate for Superbike racing back in '94. (I think) They were priced at around $50,000.
Ha-ha, Lol, LMAO. Damn this is funny. Every time I see a Harley article about their racing program, I just laugh. It's funny that they are still trying. Well, the engineers of the VR1000 will do better at their next job. Can't wait for WSB2k1 and Grand Prix 2k1 to start.
Re: Go to Poland
noise and emissions requirement leniency (especially the noise). Didn't have to spend the money to build a bike street legal in the US.
noise and emissions requirement leniency (especially the noise). Didn't have to spend the money to build a bike street legal in the US.
wOW, i DONT NOW WHAT TO SAY.......
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1,538 Posts
Ummmm... Cosworth Fords have more victories in Formula One than ANY other manufacturer. I'm not a fan of HD and barely a fan of Ford, but facts is facts, as they say.
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63 Posts
Woah!!!! Don't get over-zealous! I'm no huge Ford fan either but damned if I don't know my history. Ford not only has a proud Formula 1 history but also a LEGACY at LeMans. Not to mention the AC Corbra. And although I wasn't even alive in the late 60's early 70's, just go to any vintage race to see how many Mustangs are on the grids. There's that many because EVERYONE was racing them and EVERYONE still make parts for them. Let's keep Ford out of this little argument, eh?
They don't need Japan, they have the Germans, atleast for the motor. Maybe they should ask Japan for some advice on how to build the rest of the bike.
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23 Posts
Harley is the only bike that sux worse than Suzuki
This is a good idea because they can EASILY afford it. Problem is they will continue to develop the OLD engine instead of something new!
I agree with the post above that they should call Aprilia and find out what they are doing wrong.
Suzukis-Suck
This is a good idea because they can EASILY afford it. Problem is they will continue to develop the OLD engine instead of something new!
I agree with the post above that they should call Aprilia and find out what they are doing wrong.
Suzukis-Suck
...must be an R1 owner??
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34 Posts
I personally think they are starting to make the right decisions in this area. It seems as though they are finally trying to build a good base for thier racing organization. It is going to take a combination of many things to make Harley a respectable racing team, but all the pieces to do so are at thier access. "NOW THEY NEED TO USE THEM PROPERLY!!!!"
Ford's reputation in racing is unquestionable. They have been in the racing game for longer than most companies have thought about it and have put an unbelievable amount of victories in motorsports. They need to use thier insight in reliability and general racing knowledge.
Porsche is designing a watercooled moter for them. They need to use this technology to advance thier motors to a respectable racing level.
They need to Look to Eric Buell for thier suspensions and frame. The one thing a Buell motorcyle does is handle well.
They need to look to Harley R&D for any remainging insight that they may give, but mainly for the financial support that the motor company can bring to the game.
It appears as though they are making the right step in setting up a racing specific facility to build these bikes. This is something that they should have followed suit on a long time ago! The japs have had them for years.
While I don't see this making them competitive this year. If they put the pieces together as they have set them up to, they may be able to make great strides in thier program in the 2002 or 2003 season. scrap 2001, they allready admitted it was a rebuilding year.
I wish them the best of luck. Picotte deserves to ride a quality product that is capable of putting him on the podium a few times. He has truley shown his patience with Harley racing, its time they put the cards they have in front of them together and put him on a competitive bike.
Ford's reputation in racing is unquestionable. They have been in the racing game for longer than most companies have thought about it and have put an unbelievable amount of victories in motorsports. They need to use thier insight in reliability and general racing knowledge.
Porsche is designing a watercooled moter for them. They need to use this technology to advance thier motors to a respectable racing level.
They need to Look to Eric Buell for thier suspensions and frame. The one thing a Buell motorcyle does is handle well.
They need to look to Harley R&D for any remainging insight that they may give, but mainly for the financial support that the motor company can bring to the game.
It appears as though they are making the right step in setting up a racing specific facility to build these bikes. This is something that they should have followed suit on a long time ago! The japs have had them for years.
While I don't see this making them competitive this year. If they put the pieces together as they have set them up to, they may be able to make great strides in thier program in the 2002 or 2003 season. scrap 2001, they allready admitted it was a rebuilding year.
I wish them the best of luck. Picotte deserves to ride a quality product that is capable of putting him on the podium a few times. He has truley shown his patience with Harley racing, its time they put the cards they have in front of them together and put him on a competitive bike.
Re: Why Harley bothers....
Harley puts out a mag for H-D riders from the factory called "Enthusiast". It's a typical factory rag that reminds you that you bought the best bike on the planet. To do this they remind their readers that they have world champion riders in flat track for the last X amount of years. Of course we know that the other companies have no interest in this series as it doesn't help them sell any bikes. When was the last time you saw someone riding around on a flat tracker styled bike? The best part about this is the bike used is an XR750. An over the hill engine that wins due to slanted regulations on engine displacement per cam location.
Harley basically keeps this racing alive for it's own marketing program. It gives the H-D crowd the warm and fuzzy for the flat track #1 plate is on a Harley. You see that picture in a lot of H-D rags.
There was talk about allowing flat track racing motors up to 1000cc displacement to get other manufactures involved. They started a new series with a 100cc help to H-D by allowing them to use 1200cc sportster engines. The Suzuki TL1000 engine was beating everyone in this series. Harley wasn't close.
Harley puts out a mag for H-D riders from the factory called "Enthusiast". It's a typical factory rag that reminds you that you bought the best bike on the planet. To do this they remind their readers that they have world champion riders in flat track for the last X amount of years. Of course we know that the other companies have no interest in this series as it doesn't help them sell any bikes. When was the last time you saw someone riding around on a flat tracker styled bike? The best part about this is the bike used is an XR750. An over the hill engine that wins due to slanted regulations on engine displacement per cam location.
Harley basically keeps this racing alive for it's own marketing program. It gives the H-D crowd the warm and fuzzy for the flat track #1 plate is on a Harley. You see that picture in a lot of H-D rags.
There was talk about allowing flat track racing motors up to 1000cc displacement to get other manufactures involved. They started a new series with a 100cc help to H-D by allowing them to use 1200cc sportster engines. The Suzuki TL1000 engine was beating everyone in this series. Harley wasn't close.
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214 Posts
Do I sense a bit of skepticism on this board?
The problem is in our goverments.
If we didn't restrict the companies so much and make them spend horrible amounts of money on testing and cråp, those bikes could be sold to us.
If the US was the most lenient country out there all of these bikes would be sold here, but we are like nazis on that kind of shìt.
If we didn't restrict the companies so much and make them spend horrible amounts of money on testing and cråp, those bikes could be sold to us.
If the US was the most lenient country out there all of these bikes would be sold here, but we are like nazis on that kind of shìt.
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34 Posts
How many foriegn bike owners finance thiers that long? I personally know quite a few. your argument has absolutely no logic! Hmmmm. let me think about this for a minute? Finance an appreciating asset or close to it (harley), or finance a depreciating asset (most foriegn bikes). I personally wouldn't know. didn't have to finance either of my bikes, but It make more sense to me to finance a harley than almost any other thing I can think of besides real estate. just a personal observation, take it as you please.
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34 Posts
when did we leave the realm of cycles? the argument I made was based on the financing of a bike. and in that area, it is a much more financially sound move to finance a harley (if you must finance a bike) p.s. my investment stategy would not be based around purchasing harley's as you state, don't remember typing that in! the reason I pay cash for my bikes is because I invest in real estate.
They SHOULD turn to Buell, Erik Buell knows his . His hands have been tied, and he has had to work with that POS sportster motor.
I can almost guarantee you that if he could have used a motor design of his choice, then the chassis, suspension, and everything else would be totally different, and Buell would have at least one bike in the dead heat of the japanese companies.
I feel sorry for him, being in a Catch-22
I can almost guarantee you that if he could have used a motor design of his choice, then the chassis, suspension, and everything else would be totally different, and Buell would have at least one bike in the dead heat of the japanese companies.
I feel sorry for him, being in a Catch-22
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34 Posts
It sounds as though we are somewhat on the same page. As you state, "people living above thier means is all to common" I know alot of these people also. I personally ride for enjoyment. If I couldn't afford to ride the bike I wanted, I would either wait and buy one when I had the means, or buy another bike and enjoy what it has to offer. I am not trying to make this into a Harley vs. Jap bike argument. I own a Buell X1 (in which the motor is produced by Harley) and a Kawasaki Ninja(Jap bike). They both have thier attributes and faults. The reason I made the statement in regards to the financing of a Harley is that it is the one Vehicle that you can buy and actually not loose a couple thousand as soon as you drive it off the lot. therefore, it is actually a better decision to finance one if you must. You will actually get alot more out of it then than any other form of transportation when you decide to upgrade or sell. Your right there are all kinds of creative financing available, but IF I am going to get creativem, it better be an aweful sound investment. Financing a Harley is the only vehicle that even gets close to the term. (and it still isn't in my book)
As far as the "You can't afford one" comments, both sides of this argument loose, because they just don't get it. It just shows thier juvenile attitude. Its not about what you ride, its about enjoying riding.
As far as the "You can't afford one" comments, both sides of this argument loose, because they just don't get it. It just shows thier juvenile attitude. Its not about what you ride, its about enjoying riding.
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