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Original Article:
H-D workers approve deal

Please discuss the Motorcycle.com article H-D workers approve deal in our Motorcycle Forums below. Use the reply button to let others know your comments or feedback on the article. Constructive criticism is always appreciated, along with your thoughts and personal opinions on the bikes and products we have tested.
 

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Did they really have a choice? HD will be producing less than 300k bikes for the first time since the late 90s. Lay-offs were coming and the Onions know it. Yep- I did that intentionally for you union worshipers. Remember this, union boys: You're executives make the same type of money as the people you love to hate. They say they are there to help, but in the end all they do is drive up the cost of goods and services to placate those that have NO ability to negotiate for themselves. Wow! Ought to send that to some conservitive right-wing radio guys.
 

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Did they really have a choice? HD will be producing less than 300k bikes for the first time since the late 90s. Lay-offs were coming and the Onions know it. Yep- I did that intentionally for you union worshipers. Remember this, union boys: You're executives make the same type of money as the people you love to hate. They say they are there to help, but in the end all they do is drive up the cost of goods and services to placate those that have NO ability to negotiate for themselves. Wow! Ought to send that to some conservitive right-wing radio guys.
Horse pucky! Unions are the only effective means workers have to protect their interests. And if you look at the strenght of American industry historically, you'll see there is a direct correlation: strong unions mean strong industry, weak unions mean slave labor and cheap Chinese goods.
 

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The Toad
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Horse pucky! Unions are the only effective means workers have to protect their interests. And if you look at the strenght of American industry historically, you'll see there is a direct correlation: strong unions mean strong industry, weak unions mean slave labor and cheap Chinese goods.
Yeah. Because in Europe, where unions are far far more powerful, workers earn less than non-union workers in America. That's more of that 'cause'.

It's ridiculous to compare the unions of the turn of the 20th Century to those of the turn of the 21st. A hundred years ago union members were expected to work. It's the growing laziness of unions and the 50's mentality that's harmed themselves and lost so many jobs overseas. $80 per hour compensation packages for semi-skilled labor... LOL! While unions in theory are a powerful force for worker's in practice they've become more of a hindrance. The Steelworker's union's inability to see reality was the major factor in wrecking the US Steel industry. Same same the UAW. The only growing sector of unions is public unions..... worthless do nothings if there ever were.

Unions. Another good idea that went off the rails.
 

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Stop livin' in the past

Collective thinking! That simple. You cannot build your own self value in a union. You negotiate as a whole. What if you and Johnny IT are working for the same wages but you happen to kick his butt all over the company with your "skillz"? Are you only worth Johnny's pay?
One hundred years ago there was a place. Today, with Federal work standards you simply cannot get away with "slave labor". I cannot figure out for the life of me why I would pay equally across the board to my empoyees. I should pay for performance- period. Otherwise, hit the bricks. Teacher's unions are the worst, because they won't actually fire the employees. Seems stupid. Big Business makes us pay more as consumers for two simple UNION reasons: 1- Health Care 2- Pensions. If not for these two items the cost every consumer good could be reduced by 20-30%. The UAW absolutely put the American automaker out of business compared to Honda and Toyota.
Tell me this Kenneth- How can Toyota and Honda compete for market share so strongly here? They pay the same as the Big Three and have health care and a 401k. Yet, they make money while the Big Three are sinking fast. Mostly this is the case because employees are accountable for performance and with no union they (Big Business) can actually fire someone that has a $hitty work ethic.
Unions are not what's best for the employee. They're what's best for the whole- including the Union Execs that make big non-union types of salaries. Who's scr3wing who? You just can't go through life thinking somebody will make sure you get paid what the "collective" thinks you're worth and be fine with that. I a [email protected] good worker and I know I'm worth more than anyone that does what I do. Pay me- b!tch! That's how it works....
 

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I worked for Emery Airfreight in 1992, they were with the Teamsters. Some low-level shake up in employee staffing got me laid off, and because the Teamsters had forgotten to take out my dues for over a year, my last pay check was $76.00. Thanks Sete Tortelli, hope I see you in a cross walk some day and I'm ridin' a steamroller.
 

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My father works in a non-union machine shop and has for 29 years, he was a machinist in the late 80s when there was a huge slump in the industry. He was one of the only people that went to school with him that had a job that didn't involve pumping gas or bagging bananas. When my mom mentioned this to her friends they looked down at her because it was a non-union shop. Personally i'd rather work non-union in my field than pump gas.
 

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>Yeah. Because in Europe, where unions are far far more powerful,
>workers earn less than non-union workers in America. That's
>more of that 'cause'.

Uh huh. Workers earn less than in America, is this sweeping comment again from the trusted financial advice magazine Guns&Ammo?

Europe is a collection of vastly different countries so it obviously depends whether you compare to Bulgaria or Sweden. If you compare US wages to German ones for example: them huns earn much more than your union guys by a big margin. And their unions are strooong. IG Metal can bring the government down if they so please. Can’ t say the same about UAW really can you?

And lets remember Germany is the number one exporting country in the world. Not so bad.

- cruiz-euro
 

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The Toad
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>Yeah. Because in Europe, where unions are far far more powerful,
>workers earn less than non-union workers in America. That's
>more of that 'cause'.

Uh huh. Workers earn less than in America, is this sweeping comment again from the trusted financial advice magazine Guns&Ammo?

Europe is a collection of vastly different countries so it obviously depends whether you compare to Bulgaria or Sweden. If you compare US wages to German ones for example: them huns earn much more than your union guys by a big margin. And their unions are strooong. IG Metal can bring the government down if they so please. Can' t say the same about UAW really can you?

And lets remember Germany is the number one exporting country in the world. Not so bad.

- cruiz-euro
Govt by union, tee hee. I'm sure that looters like you think it's a good idea.... which automatically makes it a bad idea. Better invest in burkhas. That's the only guaranteed long term investment for your favorite continent.

You do know what a looter is, right?
 

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>How can Toyota and Honda compete for market share so strongly here?
>They pay the same as the Big >Three and have health care and a 401k.
>Yet, they make money while the Big Three are sinking fast.

Toyota and Honda can compete because they don’t produce appalling turds like Chevy Impala or Pontiac G8. And the turdiness does not come from losely fitted hinges, which could be Union problem. It comes from crappy design. Strong union marques like Merc, BMW, Audi and Porsche are doing pretty nicely.

- cruiz-euro
 

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>You do know what a looter is, right?

I believe in your jargon its some guys collectively refusing to kiss the corporate azz? Did you know the french looters demanded and got 35 hr working week? Now they do still 40 hr weeks but save the time to have 9 week annual vacation. Who would want that? Disgusting.

- cruiz-euro
 

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>You do know what a looter is, right?

I believe in your jargon its some guys collectively refusing to kiss the corporate azz? Did you know the french looters demanded and got 35 hr working week? Now they do still 40 hr weeks but save the time to have 9 week annual vacation. Who would want that? Disgusting.

- cruiz-euro
What's that unemployment rate, again? Our nationwide rate is 5.2%. Some would have you believe that's high and the US employement outlook is bleak. Not so! Check every other country and we have near full employment. Did Unions create those jobs? Not just no, but H3LL NO! Free trade and good planning by employers created those jobs.
I heard somewhere that the estimated union membership is somewhere in the 12 million range. It was almost 10 fold higher 50 years ago. Why are there so many people leaving the unions they are members of? The union market is no better than working without one. Markets shift you must adapt.
 

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Aging Cafe` Racer
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Being a Union member has worked out pretty well for me. If you don't believe in Union membership then don't join, there's plenty of "right to work" states that will be happy to employ you. Of course you'll be making about a third of what I and most likly Ken make, if you have medical and dental your deductible will be higher and if some managers kid needs a job you might get fired for coming in late but hey phuck unions right? you don't need them.....
 

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The Toad
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Depends a lot on the union. The Printer's Union is a complete joke. So is the one the waitresses were encouraged to join in Kalif. At least it was back in the 70's. You pay the dues and the union affords no protections or effective negotiations. But the Union Bosses have nice perks and salaries so I guess it isn't a total loss.

The problem is in stereotyping. Some unions get a good deal for their workers. Others raise the cost of labor too high and the work goes elsewhere. Witness the 10% permanent unemployment rates in Europe where the unions are so 'strong'. For example in France unemployment of people under 30 is like 25%. But I guess as long as those closed shops are getting rich who cares about anyone else, eh?
 

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>What's that unemployment rate, again? Our nationwide
>rate is 5.2%. Some would have you believe that's high
>and the US employment outlook is bleak

The US unemployment rate can not be compared to those of the civilized countries. Why? Because we have unemployment benefits. And universal health care and charge free education. Consequently the unemployed are often not too much in a hurry to find a new job. Frankly speaking, some are not in a hurry at all.

Of course this leads to certain well known economic inefficiencies i.e. bums. But people are willing to pay it because its the price of freedom. Your boss gets tiresome? Tell him to sod off. Go to Tuscany to sample some of their wine for a few months.

- cruiz-euro
 

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Question: How many % of the promising young people of California would choose b) if they were entitled to generous unemployment benefits?

a) work at the airport sorting out heavy luggage
b) drink beer, smoke pot and plan some crazy azz scheme

- cruiz-euro
 

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I certainly don't hate him, He has a different perspective on some things but he's usually good for a laugh.
 
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