Harley Class Action Suit
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We pulled some feed pump bearings last week that had cooked, about the only thing left was the inner and outer cages, 7 out of 10 ball bearings and a bunch of gritty grease LOL, these run at a constant 3450 rpm and 220 degrees, when they go you hear them start to grind, if you take them out right then they don't look any different, but leave 'em in an hour or two and they're greasy powder. Maybe with a bike engine that stops and starts you could see deformaties or magna-flux them or something, if you caught them at the right time.
Re: I can almost hear the giggles from here!
Well, there you go then. But as mentioned, it happens to all manufacturers, my Tl's frame snapped while riding it, and no, I didn't land any jumps. This was amongst other countless problems. After a little research was done, it was apparent I was not alone even though I was of course given the "never heard of it"line from Suzuki. But I didn't sue, I instead went to the NHTSA thinking that this was a serious safety concern. I even supplied them articles from foreign magazines mentioning this, lists of others dealers dealing with snapped frames etc etc but they showed no interest. When this happens, it is not surprising that lawyers are then involved. It seems that while auto manufacturers are concerned with recalls, bike manufacturers live in denial . Your bike doesn't work? No big deal, most of you are going to take the truck in to work anyway.
Well, there you go then. But as mentioned, it happens to all manufacturers, my Tl's frame snapped while riding it, and no, I didn't land any jumps. This was amongst other countless problems. After a little research was done, it was apparent I was not alone even though I was of course given the "never heard of it"line from Suzuki. But I didn't sue, I instead went to the NHTSA thinking that this was a serious safety concern. I even supplied them articles from foreign magazines mentioning this, lists of others dealers dealing with snapped frames etc etc but they showed no interest. When this happens, it is not surprising that lawyers are then involved. It seems that while auto manufacturers are concerned with recalls, bike manufacturers live in denial . Your bike doesn't work? No big deal, most of you are going to take the truck in to work anyway.
A good quality ball or roller bearing should be hard enough, and therefore brittle enough, that once an imperfection occurs it self destructs in a short period of time. I have seen cheaper ball bearings where the balls deform and the bearing still operates dispite the play between the inner and outer races. Also some bearings are chrome plated and the plating can chip off.
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sorry, I forgot,,,,[e'hm],,,,HARLEY'S ARE F'N GARBAGE,,,,,PEOPLE THAT RIDE THEM ARE POSER ****,,,,,,SPORTBIKE RIDERS ARE SQUIDS THAT RUN UP EVERYONE'S INSURANCE,,,,,,,,CRUISER RIDERS ARE ALL MIDDLE-AGED FATGUY WANNABEES THAT ARE DRUNK,,,,,,,,,DUEL SPORTS ARE FOR GAYS TO RIDE WHEN THEIR SUBURU'S ARE IN THE SHOP,,,,,,,,,,did I miss anyone?
I'm not sure how you could eyeball a roller bearing that is "failing" and not "failed". The only way is if the rollers had flat spots from skidding, or the cages are deforming, but everything is still intact. All I have ever seen is roller bearing good, roller bearing "go boom". He was stating that the mechanic said his bearings were "failing". Something that has 7 of 10 rollers left is "failed". I was just asking if he had an idea of how the mechanic determined they were failing by eyeballing them.
Re: Defending Corvettes
What! A two valve push-rod design is world class? Am I hearing KPaul right? Isn't this ancient technology? Next thing you know he will appreciate '90s vintage air cooled Porsches. (For the sarcasm impaired -- I like both 'vettes and Porsches).
One thing no one has mentioned about the bearing problem with the TC88 was that it was acknowledged and redesigned. Harley did replace any bearings that failed, but stopped short of agreeing to repair all bearings in every engine, which may have been a better approach. At least they did not blame the owners as other brands have done.
Again, every brand has issues. If I were to go by reliability on bikes I have owned, Honda would be at the bottom of the list. However, I realize that most hondas are far more reliable than the one particular bike that I owned.
What! A two valve push-rod design is world class? Am I hearing KPaul right? Isn't this ancient technology? Next thing you know he will appreciate '90s vintage air cooled Porsches. (For the sarcasm impaired -- I like both 'vettes and Porsches).
One thing no one has mentioned about the bearing problem with the TC88 was that it was acknowledged and redesigned. Harley did replace any bearings that failed, but stopped short of agreeing to repair all bearings in every engine, which may have been a better approach. At least they did not blame the owners as other brands have done.
Again, every brand has issues. If I were to go by reliability on bikes I have owned, Honda would be at the bottom of the list. However, I realize that most hondas are far more reliable than the one particular bike that I owned.
Re: I can almost hear the giggles from here!
Let's put it this way, our "playthings" would cost lots more money if we get the lawyers involved. All the "it could kill me" stuff is usually waaaaaay overblown. It's all lawyerspeak for "I need mo' money". I saw a 10 million judgement against Yamaha for a guy who got killed when his throttle "locked up". Probably the only thing that "locked up" was his brain. Even if it did lock up, did he ever hear of pull in the clutch? Motorcycles almost got mandatory leg guards in the 80's when a lawyer was suing every mfg for every leg injury that occured from any accident. He cited "unsafe design". Is this the kind of crap we want? I don't. If anyone is happy this is happening to Harley, sooner or later (bet on sooner) this will be happening to all the other mfgs. and then motorcycles can be as over-regulated as the auto industry.
Let's put it this way, our "playthings" would cost lots more money if we get the lawyers involved. All the "it could kill me" stuff is usually waaaaaay overblown. It's all lawyerspeak for "I need mo' money". I saw a 10 million judgement against Yamaha for a guy who got killed when his throttle "locked up". Probably the only thing that "locked up" was his brain. Even if it did lock up, did he ever hear of pull in the clutch? Motorcycles almost got mandatory leg guards in the 80's when a lawyer was suing every mfg for every leg injury that occured from any accident. He cited "unsafe design". Is this the kind of crap we want? I don't. If anyone is happy this is happening to Harley, sooner or later (bet on sooner) this will be happening to all the other mfgs. and then motorcycles can be as over-regulated as the auto industry.
Re: I can almost hear the giggles from here!
I don't like frivolous lawsuits, either, but I take issue with your sentence, 'If you notice, the engines aren't failing but they are being sued for "the potential" of failing and 100,000 is the number THEY say. '
Motorcycle Consumer News has printed letters from those whose bikes _have_ failed, due to the design flaw. The reason the lawsuit was reinstated was that the judge determined the plaintiffs didn't have to experience failure, only the potential of it, to prove they have a defective product. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems fair to me that if they made 100,000 engines of this type and a statistically significant number of basically identical engines have failed, the 100,000 owners of those engines are entitled to compensation.
I don't like frivolous lawsuits, either, but I take issue with your sentence, 'If you notice, the engines aren't failing but they are being sued for "the potential" of failing and 100,000 is the number THEY say. '
Motorcycle Consumer News has printed letters from those whose bikes _have_ failed, due to the design flaw. The reason the lawsuit was reinstated was that the judge determined the plaintiffs didn't have to experience failure, only the potential of it, to prove they have a defective product. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems fair to me that if they made 100,000 engines of this type and a statistically significant number of basically identical engines have failed, the 100,000 owners of those engines are entitled to compensation.
Re: I can almost hear the giggles from here!
I have no idea how many actually failed. From all the research I have done on dealers I talk to and internet searches, it seems to be very small. Much like the Y2K "problem" there seems to be lots more hand wringing and doomsaying than actual failures. Harley did say they would fix, for the lifetime of the owner, any failed engine. The 100,000 engines is a lawyer claim, and not Harley's claim. Also, what would be a "statistcally significant number"? 1%? 10% 50%? Harley could have just kept quiet from day one about the thing. They really started this themselves by at least acknowledging there MAY be a problem. Probably, if they were going to mention it, they should have just recalled them all and been done with it, so all the lawyers would be happy. I doubt most of the owners of those bikes really care that much.
I have no idea how many actually failed. From all the research I have done on dealers I talk to and internet searches, it seems to be very small. Much like the Y2K "problem" there seems to be lots more hand wringing and doomsaying than actual failures. Harley did say they would fix, for the lifetime of the owner, any failed engine. The 100,000 engines is a lawyer claim, and not Harley's claim. Also, what would be a "statistcally significant number"? 1%? 10% 50%? Harley could have just kept quiet from day one about the thing. They really started this themselves by at least acknowledging there MAY be a problem. Probably, if they were going to mention it, they should have just recalled them all and been done with it, so all the lawyers would be happy. I doubt most of the owners of those bikes really care that much.
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Why a atrociteur owns Harley Stock
Harley an all-star in dividends (click on this)
Special Thanks goes to the Highwayman and the gray pony tailed brotherhood!
If they settled it would be a drop in the bucket
Harley finacial statements
Harley an all-star in dividends (click on this)
Special Thanks goes to the Highwayman and the gray pony tailed brotherhood!
If they settled it would be a drop in the bucket
Harley finacial statements
Re: Why a atrociteur owns Harley Stock
I don't even have to look. I read they made 1 billion in profits in 02. They are projecting selling 280,000 bikes this year, I believe. They are a freight train running downhill. If Harley portrays the plaintiffs as atrociteurs, they may sell even MORE bikes because of the lawsuit. I hear the H-Man is writing their press release right now!
I don't even have to look. I read they made 1 billion in profits in 02. They are projecting selling 280,000 bikes this year, I believe. They are a freight train running downhill. If Harley portrays the plaintiffs as atrociteurs, they may sell even MORE bikes because of the lawsuit. I hear the H-Man is writing their press release right now!
Re: I can almost hear the giggles from here!
So our manhood will be determined by what we ride, eh, Longride. Boy, does that ever sound prejudicial. Well, currently my garage has 3 Suzuki's in it, DL1000, SV650 and DR 350. However, my garage is in a constant state of flux and over the years has housed BMW's, Ducati's, MZ's, Honda's, Kawasaki's, Yamaha's and Suzuki's. Conspicuous by it's absence is Harley Davidson but not for the reasons you may think. I harbor no prejudices against the Motor Co. They just don't build a bike that fits the kind of riding I do. I test drove the new Buell Firebolt this past year and really did want to like it, but it just didn't happen. I feel no need to adapt my riding to a certain bike in order to fulfill some need to belong to a certain group and the cruiser style bike just doesn't do it for me. However, my mind remains open to future possibilities, unlike some folks. Maybe when Harley lets Buell use the V-Rod motor.......
As to kids on their parents computer, thanks for the compliment. At 56 years old, you're the first person to call me a kid in a long time. You must be ancient!
So our manhood will be determined by what we ride, eh, Longride. Boy, does that ever sound prejudicial. Well, currently my garage has 3 Suzuki's in it, DL1000, SV650 and DR 350. However, my garage is in a constant state of flux and over the years has housed BMW's, Ducati's, MZ's, Honda's, Kawasaki's, Yamaha's and Suzuki's. Conspicuous by it's absence is Harley Davidson but not for the reasons you may think. I harbor no prejudices against the Motor Co. They just don't build a bike that fits the kind of riding I do. I test drove the new Buell Firebolt this past year and really did want to like it, but it just didn't happen. I feel no need to adapt my riding to a certain bike in order to fulfill some need to belong to a certain group and the cruiser style bike just doesn't do it for me. However, my mind remains open to future possibilities, unlike some folks. Maybe when Harley lets Buell use the V-Rod motor.......
As to kids on their parents computer, thanks for the compliment. At 56 years old, you're the first person to call me a kid in a long time. You must be ancient!
Re: But Seriously Folks
Let's not be swayed by the siren song of the class action lawsuit league as they troll by looking for more bodies to jump into the SS P.T. Barnum.
Harley has done more for motorcycling and our country than this bunch.
If the allegations are true and if Harley buyers are anything like they pretend I predict some serious ass whoopin' in a certain Milwaukee parking lot.
Let's not be swayed by the siren song of the class action lawsuit league as they troll by looking for more bodies to jump into the SS P.T. Barnum.
Harley has done more for motorcycling and our country than this bunch.
If the allegations are true and if Harley buyers are anything like they pretend I predict some serious ass whoopin' in a certain Milwaukee parking lot.
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