[ofreen]

I'm sure it is a nice enough bike when you compare it to the air-cooled Buell, but what about when you compare the Japanese and Italian, and British competition? I will try to ride one, but after owning a Hayabusa for 2 years, I'm not sure I will come away all that impressed. If I can get a ride on one, I will report what I think of it. Oh yeah, It's nice to have you back. Hang around and have some fun.

Thanks, LR. Speedwise, the 1125 isn't going going to blow your socks off compared to the Hayabusa, but it is plenty quick. I went back and read the review on this site for the 1125. It made a comment that I see as right on the money compared to the Japanese liter sportbikes. It doesn't have that sudden warp-factor the Japanese bikes have, it just keeps pulling hard all the way up to redline (10,500). I was impressed with it when I was done. I wanted to keep going. There is definitely none of the kitbike feel to it that some of the old Buells had.

 

[newagetwotone]

You're an idiot.

 

[trenttheuncatchable]

Buell was always the Harley stepchild. Buell bikes always got short thrift in the Harley showrooms. They were never part of the Harley culture. It's no surprise the bikes didn't sell well. A buyer really has to like a bike to buy it from a dealer/sales staff who sneers at their own product.

Buell bikes should have had their own separate showrooms/dealers. When Harley acquired MV Augusta, those bikes could have been in the same showroom, along with V-RODs and maybe the XR1200.

The younger generation isn't interested in riding on an expensive "geezer glide". I can understand Harley trying to stem the bleeding, but by dropping Buell and MV Augusta they have cut off a part of their customer base that can actually see substantial growth.

And what are they going to do about their Rider's Edge program? Use the Buell Blasts they have left until they run out of them? Then what?

All Harley has left now is a single niche market. I'm sure the company will survive, and maybe that's all they're interested in at the moment. But they've handled the situation badly and can be viewed as inept or fickle, neither of which is good for the company's reputation.

 

[MOKE1K]

I'd like to. What have you seen?

Our local track promotes low end torque but not high speed. Iv ridden an XB9R and the new 1125r and they are great at this type of tighter 600 track. Fun, but I'll keep my smooth shifting six with lighter weight and a quicker steering. But it was nice to wheelie the thing out of just about ever turn,on command.

 

[newagetwotone]

Honestly, why didnt they just let Erik take Buell back as an independent company... people looking at Buells arnt going to look at Harley anways, well outside of the XR1200.

 

[longride]

"Buell was always the Harley stepchild. Buell bikes always got short thrift in the Harley showrooms. They were never part of the Harley culture. It's no surprise the bikes didn't sell well. A buyer really has to like a bike to buy it from a dealer/sales staff who sneers at their own product."

So you are balming Harley for the crappy sales of the 1125? Please!

 

[newagetwotone]

You're right, Blame Kpaul! (sorta like blame canada)

 

[pplassm]

OK, I keep reading (here and on other sites) that HD is ignoring and alienating younger rider with their current offerings. I think that is wrong.

The "Iron", "Nightster", "X-Bones", and "Fatbob" are clearly targeted at younger riders, and very popular. They have all the youthful attention they need or want. They didn't need Buell.

This from a guy whole loved the way my old Buell performed.

 

[seruzawa]

OK, I keep reading (here and on other sites) that HD is ignoring and alienating younger rider with their current offerings. I think that is wrong.

The "Iron", "Nightster", "X-Bones", and "Fatbob" are clearly targeted at younger riders, and very popular. They have all the youthful attention they need or want. They didn't need Buell.

This from a guy whole loved the way my old Buell performed.

I've heard that "common wisdom" too many times. Yeah, lots of young guys like sportbikes, but lot's of them like HDs and choppers as well. I sure did when I was 22 and out of the service. The fact that the chicks dig the HDs is a factor too.... a big one.

 

[pdad13]

I've heard that "common wisdom" too many times. Yeah, lots of young guys like sportbikes, but lot's of them like HDs and choppers as well. I sure did when I was 22 and out of the service. The fact that the chicks dig the HDs is a factor too.... a big one.

In this case, common wisdom is pretty much on the money. The average H-D buyer is 49 years old as of 2008, which is nearly a decade higher than the industry average. Of course there are lots of younger folks that dig H-Ds, but, in relative terms, it's probably not enough. The Dark models have helped a bit, but their ultimate impact remains to be seen.

As I've droned on about before, H-D's demographic problem is fairly unique because it's not so much a demographic that's their core customers, but a generation of people (Baby Boomers). While there will still be a significant number of people who are drawn to the H-D style and brand--including some younger ones--there will likely be fewer and fewer as the years go by, which will ultimately be a real problem. Add to that the increase in "value" and "savings" thinking that the economic recession has brought on, and you may see a significant drop in purchases even from the Boomers, who are at or nearing retirement.

H-D was already running out of customers at their previous production levels, which, no doubt, led to the sub-prime financing debacle that is the company's biggest problem right now.

It's not a figment of everyone's imaginations; there are real challenges for the company long- and not-so-long term.

 

[longride]

"It's not a figment of everyone's imaginations; there are real challenges for the company long- and not-so-long term."

Pretty much the same challenges they had in the 60's when they sold to AMF, and in the 80's when they bought it back. All they make is large motorcycles. The company will wax and wane like the tide today, as in the past.

 

[seruzawa]

In this case, common wisdom is pretty much on the money. The average H-D buyer is 49 years old as of 2008, which is nearly a decade higher than the industry average. Of course there are lots of younger folks that dig H-Ds, but, in relative terms, it's probably not enough. The Dark models have helped a bit, but their ultimate impact remains to be seen.

As I've droned on about before, H-D's demographic problem is fairly unique because it's not so much a demographic that's their core customers, but a generation of people (Baby Boomers). While there will still be a significant number of people who are drawn to the H-D style and brand--including some younger ones--there will likely be fewer and fewer as the years go by, which will ultimately be a real problem. Add to that the increase in "value" and "savings" thinking that the economic recession has brought on, and you may see a significant drop in purchases even from the Boomers, who are at or nearing retirement.

H-D was already running out of customers at their previous production levels, which, no doubt, led to the sub-prime financing debacle that is the company's biggest problem right now.

It's not a figment of everyone's imaginations; there are real challenges for the company long- and not-so-long term.

Never argued with any of that. But broad claims that "young guys don't like Harleys" are patently false because I know many who do. If one said that "young guys can't afford Harleys" that would be a more accurate statement. But the baby boomer problem in the US bike market affects all brands. Most of your buyers of big ticket Japanese bikes are boomers too. As the boomers get too old to ride all manufacturers are going to be hurting in the US market. Of my unscientific sampling of my kids' (20s) friends only a very few care about owning motorcycles at all. Of my motorcycle riding friends' kids very few care about riding as well. They seem to like bikes, just not enough to bother to own one except maybe a scooter here or there.

Thinking that only Harley is in serious trouble is wishful thinking. The boomers are buying the vast majority GSes, K12s and FJR1300s and they will be the ones buying the new VFR1200s.

 

[pdad13]

Never argued with any of that. But broad claims that "young guys don't like Harleys" are patently false because I know many who do. If one said that "young guys can't afford Harleys" that would be a more accurate statement. But the baby boomer problem in the US bike market affects all brands. Most of your buyers of big ticket Japanese bikes are boomers too. As the boomers get too old to ride all manufacturers are going to be hurting in the US market. Of my unscientific sampling of my kids' (20s) friends only a very few care about owning motorcycles at all. Of my motorcycle riding friends' kids very few care about riding as well. They seem to like bikes, just not enough to bother to own one except maybe a scooter here or there.

Thinking that only Harley is in serious trouble is wishful thinking. The boomers are buying the vast majority GSes, K12s and FJR1300s and they will be the ones buying the new VFR1200s.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think only H-D is in trouble. The whole industry is down massively; we just happen to be talking about H-D. And I agree that as the boomers thin, the entire industry will be feel it. In fact, most consumer industries will be hurt. No disagreement there. But H-D, from a demographic standpoint, is probably in a little weaker position than the rest. There is absolutely sound logic to getting younger riders into the fold earlier. How they do it without alienating the core is the really tricky question. In a very real sense, H-D is a victim of its own brilliant success.

To LR's point, most companies wax and wane. But H-D's rebirth in the late 80's was based largely on patriotism, some government intervention, nostalgia and the identification and adulation of people of a certain age group. In the future there probably won't be quite as many people with the same sensibilities. Will there still be a lot of them? Yes, but maybe not enough to sustain the company as it is.

For the last few years there have been a lot of people who insisted that H-D could never find itself in the position it's in now. But the signs were there. The bad economy--and H-D jumping on the sub-prime gravy train--just made it that much worse. Profits were down 84% in the third quarter. And it could be even worse than that.

I want to see them survive and flourish--even if I don't aspire to own one of their products--because it's good for the industry as a whole. But I do think the company is at a point where a strategic shift (and maybe not even a dramatic one) might be called for.

 

[71067]

pbad you are correct

I am capable of no coherent thought.

 

[mscuddy]

Very Interesting...

"It's not a figment of everyone's imaginations; there are real challenges for the company long- and not-so-long term."

Pretty much the same challenges they had in the 60's when they sold to AMF, and in the 80's when they bought it back. All they make is large motorcycles. The company will wax and wane like the tide today, as in the past.

No so Kemosabe. Frank White (ATK) sits on the HD board of directors. A couple years back HD decided they needed an entry level motorcycle in the 125-250-500cc ranges. And it could not be made in China, that was the biggest point made.

So they went to ATK produce bikes made in the USA, that the core HD rider could see his kid on, or his wife. These machines would have all the tick goodies on 'em Ohlins, Brembos, White-Power forks, etc, and probably be powered by a Rotax design, or even an in-house conlomeration, a rotax top end, with a lower end designed by HD.

But with all the talk of the economy tanking, hyperinflation, factories closing, etc. it might have been put on the back burner.

Would be neat to see a ATK/HD designed dual sport though. Very interesting...but stoopid!

 

[acecycleins]

"Would be neat to see a ATK/HD designed dual sport though. Very interesting...but stoopid!"

$10k ATK's are a hard enough sell. But maybe the Harley loyal would pony it up if the sticker's looked right- LOL!

 

[pdad13]

I am capable of no coherent thought.

In light of "FreedomPilot's" comments, I retract everything I've posted here.

 

[newagetwotone]

One of these days theres going to be NO names left because hes going to have used them all to get a total of 2 messages through before ban...

 

[sarnali2]

In light of "FreedomPilot's" comments, I retract everything I've posted here.

Quite alright old bean..perfectly understandable.

Believe me we don't encourage the fool we ban him every time he sticks his head up. The guy is simply too f*cking stupid to believe that he is not welcome here. We as moderators have tried everything to accommodate the guy if he would only act like a rational human being and contribute something yet he has proven himself incapable of anything other than the same old off the wall crap he's been coming up with for years.

 

[The_AirHawk]

Quite alright old bean..perfectly understandable.

Believe me we don't encourage the fool we ban him every time he sticks his head up. The guy is simply too f*cking stupid to believe that he is not welcome here. We as moderators have tried everything to accommodate the guy if he would only act like a rational human being and contribute something yet he has proven himself incapable of anything other than the same old off the wall crap he's been coming up with for years.

Including just "letting him run" and come back for awhile. When he acted sane. For about ten posts.....................