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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First?!

He's right. But GMs problems are poor management, a disasterous pension plan, and unions that think they control the auto industry. Harley is a waaaaaay better organization than that.

 

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For further insight into the long running GM fiasco, see Forbes.com. Click on Commentary & look for Jerry Flint. Flint is a long time auto industry analyst & serious car buff. Of course you could read just about anything by Brock Yates...all the way back to "Grosse Pointe Myopians".



Any Mofo's who are NYT online subscribers...well, lets just you keep that little embarrassment between yourself, Krugman & The Dowd.

 

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Perhaps GM should look into adding a line of armchaps and black tshirts...it's worked for others...



Bryan...aww, they'd probably just wind up overreaching by trying to patent the sound of the v-8...
 

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At firist glance I thought about .com boom when AOL and Yahoo had unrealistic valuations... 200-500 P/E ratio...But HDs PE ratio is 15.96 which means it is actually undervalued...given the rule of thumb of 20 for most manufacturing companies... GM has Price/Loss ratio of 3... Man that's bad..You think the Government will bail them out like Chysler? Man I never should of sold my HD stock I guess. no no they are going out of business next year... when all the GPTB get hip replacements..:)



My last Chevy was the small Blazer what a lemmon. I sold it right after the warranty was up back during the SUV craze.. i.e. I got a good price..The thing was in the shop every 3 months for the 36,000 miles I owed it. When you turned on the air-conditioning or cd the horn would honk.. They never could fix that... LOL
 

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Unions that think they control the indusrty? Are you aware that Harley Davidson employees are unionized. If companies treated their employees fairly, then unions wouldnt be needed. But as it stands, the large corporations view employees as a hinderence, not an asset. Have you noticed the income divide between the rich and poor recently? Have you noticed that that the middle class is in danger of collapsing? Are you secure in your job? Be careful what you say about the unions. They helped create the (endangered)middle class that you love so much.





P.S. The harley valuation over GM is rather old news.
 

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I'm amazed they came this far without going belly up. As far as I'm concerned they, just as Ford, have been producing sub-par products for many years...Drive a new or even better a three year old GM car back to back with a Toyota, VW, AUDI, BMW, Mercedes or Honda and you'll know what I mean...Concerning design, we all know it's a question of taste, but most new american cars simply put my feet to sleep! The others simply are better AND cooler and the american public is finally getting to the point where its seemingly endless patriotism is making way to plain common sense. Let's hope the same is true when the next election comes around!

Harley woke up in time when they started upgrading their technology to be at least reasonably close to par...but what really did it was the nice designs the've been coming up with.
 

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Funny. My comments about (pro) union were pulled. Is the staff of MO just as brainwashed as the conservatives? I'm very dissapointed in this meager "publication".
 

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Oh for god's sake, have you just gotten here? MO doesn't pull comments like that. The damn thing is right were you left it; right under acecycleins's post. Someone even replied.



Good loord, everyone is just itchin' to *****. Put on some thermals and get on your damn bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Did I say that HD wasn't unionized? NO- I said GM has bad management and poor decision making. As far as unions go, however, people that work for big auto or m/c manufactures tend to forget that they work for the manufacturer not the union. Furthermore, your assertion that corperations think of employees are a hinderence might as well label you as a left-wing liberal with no real idea how free commerce works. Case in point, most of the Japanese owned plants that operate in America ARE NOT unionized and you don't here employees whining like UAW members do. Want further evidence, Delta about bought the farm because (highly trained) airline pilots thought that it would be better to walk (virtually ending Delta) rather than trying to find a solution. Eastern Airlines died because of union behavior. Not for any other reason.
 

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You are correct about the Japanese and European manufacturers in the US are not unionized. They are in the poor south where the laws make it very difficult to organize. Delta, okay I give you that, but it's still poor management high up. So how do you respond to SouthWest airlines. The most profitable airline in the U.S., and they're all Teamsters! Hmm.



Calling me a liberal is a compliment, and I do understand free commerce in this country. Unfortunately, the corporations have bought Washington, and they are allowed to do as they please. Ownership society is complete B.S. it's going to break the back of middle class. Dems may tax and spend, but the GOP just deficit spends. Long live the worthless dollar!
 

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Case in point, most of the Japanese owned plants that operate in America ARE NOT unionized and you don't here employees whining like UAW members do. Want further evidence, Delta about bought the farm because (highly trained) airline pilots thought that it would be better to walk (virtually ending Delta) rather than trying to find a solution. Eastern Airlines died because of union behavior. Not for any other reason.





Japanese companys work with unions too. Their employees are younger than Ford or GM and aren't locked into expensive pension and benefit contracts. You don't hear the employees whining, because they have no union to speak for them. Airlines fail because the industry is deregulated and highly competitive. The line about how the unions are destroying an Airline is hogwash.
 

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People are just itching for conspiracy and an excuse to complain about being discriminated against..



This post disappeared! Oh wait, I still writing it, and you're still reading it.. hmm..



Must be one of those brain-washed conservatives.......



Probably just a case of "where did I post it?" syndrom. ;)
 

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the american public is finally getting to the point where its seemingly endless patriotism is making way to plain common sense.



I haven't run into anyone who buys American just to buy American. In fact 90% of the parts on our Toyota are American made and the car itself is assembled here. Our Ford has fewer American made parts and is assembled in Canada.



Plus the Ford and GM cars are usually cheaper than the Jap cars.
 

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Ok guys. We all know GM has some real quality issues, but that should NEVER make anyone say he would take a harley over a GM product. Fact is this - all mass produced products do have issues - and Harley has them too. I hope you all are smarter than allowing your self to be seen riding a Harley.
 
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