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Harley did it again?

30K views 147 replies 39 participants last post by  captainwhoopass 
#1 ·
Re: They did it again?

You Harley shill!

How much butt does one have to kiss to get some VFR sales figures posted?
 
#52 ·
Re: Hawgs

I see this whole Harley "renaissance" as a kind of cultural amnesia. Harley almost tanked a few decades ago, by producing an inferior, dated product. Somehow, through a kind of reverse-logic, it became the bike of choice for a certain brand of rider. And you can be sure, that "brand" of rider, knew one end of a wrench from the other.

As other (read that Japanese) brands became more and more attuned to US needs, Harley’s percentage of the market shrank. Hence the 30% import tariffs on any bike 750cc and over, back in "the bad old days" at Harley. Remembering how bad they were, I think, is the hardest part for anyone in my age bracket, to forget. Not to mention, a used hog in fair, to poor shape was a relatively cheap item, back in them thar days.

Now, Harley Davidson is selling pretty much the same product (albeit with Japanese parts), but to a different group of rider, nostalgic in intent, but for the most part vacuous in mechanical ability. A small percent of people who buy new Harleys, actually work on them. Maybe change a sparkplug, but no major stuff, like splitting cases. Take it to the dealer. And when it gets old and faded, sell it, and buy a new one.

This Harley rebirth is to me, a kind of insidious look at the way our culture, as a nation, is headed. Where looks are accepted over substance. Glitz over function. And no one works on anything, or knows how anything works.

Where nostalgia is canned, and sold, like soup.

BTW, I'd have three Harleys, if I could buy a thrashed one for around $750.00 again.
 
#55 ·
Re: Hawgs

all that chrome on those 50s cadillacs were pure function. looks over substance is nothing new here.

The folks at harley must've figured out more people liked riding instead of wrenching.

the irony of my situation is that i have to wrench on my old honda and not the new harley.boohoo
 
#57 ·
Re: Yamaha MT01

By about 1920, every configuration of piston type engine had been tested. Sleeve-valves, double over head cam, desmo, 5 valve heads.

Rotary valves, etc..etc...Look at thr Frontiac Ford, DOHC, 4 Valve per cylinder Model T based engines (how the Chevrolet Bros. got started).
 
#58 ·
Re: And why they COULD

And I've still got one (CB350). Can you say unbreakable? Except for the cam bearings, or lack of them.
 
#64 ·
Re: Facts vs. Hype

Harley makes a ton of money becasue they never redesign their bikes. They must have made their money back about 30 years ago and now it is all gravy. If people line up to buy it, why change?

Honda sells more motorcycles world wide than any other maker...I would say they are doing quite well in the marketplace.
 
#68 ·
Re: Honda bulletproof?

Tell your buddy to get his low rider back to the dealer. It sounds like a pinched o-ring in the primary. I know they had a problem with that a couple years ago. I believe there is a shop bulletin on it. Once he gets that little sucker fixed he'll likely not have anymore problems at all. Do this of course only if you care about another non-wingnut motorcyclist.
 
#69 ·
why Hog-Pilots can't wave to you...

The bike is shaking too much - removing a hand would put the bike at risk of a crash. Its obvious the RIDERS aren't worried about crashing based on the level of "protective" gear they wear.

Now, before you yell and scream at me for being biased agains Harley riders (I do think the custom choppers are rather goofy-looking) - I met a couple of weekend warriors a few weeks ago. They were sooo proud of their gleaming Heritage Classics sitting outside of the doughnut shop. To hear them go on about them, and how much they love riding them - I've NEVER heard a sport bike rider go on and on about how much they love riding their bikes. These guys were having one Hell of a good time, so how can you fault that when no one else is getting hurt? These guys actually had SNELL-approved full-face lids and proper leather gear too, so they may even have a decent chance of surviving a crash.

So what if they don't wave? Who cares? Are other riders looking for validation from these folks by receiving a wave? Who knows. I think that the Hog-Pilots are having too good of a time on their bikes to even NOTICE other riders.
 
#70 ·
Re: Hawgs

Japanese brands became more attuned to US needs all right...they sold their bikes at a loss to move product and gain market share. And if I remember correctly, Harley asked the tariffs be removed early and they haven't looked back since.

As for the Japanese parts on a Harley, I believe that the number of domestic suppliers they do business with far outnumbers the foreign suppliers. If you haven't noticed lately, we are in kind of a world economy and most motorcycle manufacturers are using foreign suppliers to an extent. Yes, Japanese bikes even use some American parts.

Welcome to the free market. If the market wasn't there, they wouldn't be making products to feed it. Until the market changes away from the current nostalgic formula, H-D has little pressure to change.
 
#71 ·
But what about the future?

What happens to HD when the air cooled V-Twin cannot pass EPA regulations?

Does their financial statement say that HD makes a profit off their bikes and not just parts and accessories? I know it shows revenue growth but what is the profit margin on the bikes?

On a related note it seems that HD is reaching it's saturation point, a local stealer, one that has a long history of overcharging for new HD's was advertising new '04 models for less than MSRP. Could the gravy train on new bike sales be coming to an end for HD stealers?

I'd say that ever since old man Honda died the bikes coming from Honda have become more vanilla and boring. They seem to have no passion for design creativity, where as Yamaha have become the leader of the Japanese for styling followed by Kawasaki. Everything coming out of Honda has that Toyota Camry feel to me, they do the job but are visually unexciting especially compared to the competition. The new CBR's aren't bad, but the cruiser line just doesn't cut it when compared to HD, Yamaha or Kawasaki. The way it's going for Honda I could see them losing money on bikes at this point, the showrooms are getting clogged up with left overs.
 
#73 ·
Re: Hawgs

Instead of cultural amnesia, I think ya just have amnesia. My 1976 Superglide stock had Kayaba forks, Mikuni carb, and after digging into the engine, many seals that were made in Japan, so those same crappy old Harleys had Japanese parts too. All that was way before there was tariffs or bankruptcy. No one works on anything or knows how anything works? Didn't that spawn a whole generation of Japanese motorcycle riders? Buy a bike you don't have to work on, and then when you do, send it to the junkyard. Let's go to the local boneyard and count the number of Japanese bikes to Harleys. Why don't you buy a thrashed Japanese bike for $750 and build that?
 
#75 ·
Re: Honda bulletproof?

Sucks for him. My Wing has only has a single recall for a possible over heating issue. I never had it overheat or even close to overheating, so no biggy for me.

Lucky Honda did not make him pay to have their known defects fixed like certain other manufacturers do.
 
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