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I agree as well. I think that overall the Bandit and ZRX1200 are great bikes that would continue to represent exceptional value into the foreseeable future. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a similiar bike lighter and better handling with the same kind of Big 'ol High Torque lightly stressed engine that forms the core of Bandit and Rex owners affection (the same engines even!).
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

The Buick century has the highest quality over a three year period, and the lacrosse it's replacement has the highest intial quality. Before you start well who wants a century, rememberyou asked what American car has build quality of a Honda accord.
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

Show me the "Made In USA" Sticker on an HD. Go ahead look for it. Now get real, take a look at how much of a Honda is US assembly/parts vs. HD. After you get the facts, you still would not buy the Honda just because it's a Jap name, right?
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

H-D is so polarizing for a number of reasons, most of which I won't go into here. But you must admit that many hardcore H-D enthusiasts have created an us-against-them atmosphere in regards to people who choose to ride other brands and types of bikes. That doesn't mean that many H-D riders aren't inclusive, but that has been the trend. Of course, smartly, the company has used this to their advantage. But, naturally, this has created some resentment, which, in turn, leads to the famous p*ssing matches. I've heard H-D owners more than a few times refer to their bikes as "real motorcycles," whatever that means.

I think another big issue gets to the heart of your post. In reality, H-D is more of a marketing company than a manufacturing company. And people that don't identify with the H-D lifestyle are totally put off by this. It's anathema to many people that veiw themselves as "serious" motorcyclists. Obviously, it's been a very effective business proposition for the last decade +, but maybe H-D is overplaying its hand. When you can buy almost any trinket with H-D branding on it, it's a clear indication of oversaturation. And people really resent oversaturation after a while.

Then you've got widespread dealer arrogance, price gouging, which is widely reported by even H-D owners, and an extremely conservative product development philosophy that excludes basically anyone that doesn't buy into the "mystique." Plus they're charging premium prices for a product that is really not premium in most senses and is now about as exclusive as aluminum foil.

Add all of this to the fact that H-D has dominated the U.S. market and it's maddening to people that "have to ask and don't understand."
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

Pretty Much

HQ-USA v. HQ-Japan for not enough of a superior product/ price break to make up that difference.
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

I hate their prices and their lack of modern technology. If Japan offers a better built bike for less, why should I buy American?

Can any mass produced affordable car from the 1940s compare with any car built today in regards to design, safety, performance and value? NO.

With all that money that HD rakes in with absurd bike prices and accessories, why don't they take a chance and really design a new bike? The V-rod is nothing but an American copy of a Japanese copied American bike. HD chose to go to the German Italians and French for engine help! Why didn't they keep it in our country and ask Ford, Dodge or Chevy for engine design help? What does that say for their faith in American engineering?

Buell is trying to copy Japan, badly.

Harley is an elitist status symbol that uses marketing to force-feed us the image of being the best.

Nostalgia? Evolve or die.
 

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This drop has less to do with Harley as a company and more to do with the current direction of the US economy. The housing & refi bubble built on cheap easy credit is slowing down and big ticket discretionary consumer purchasing will slow with it.
 

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I think Harley's are great iconic motorcycles but why would I go to the dealership, get harrased and ridiculed because I'm questioning spending $21,000 for a MOTORCYCLE. These people harrass you, want you to spend 2-3k OVER msrp, buy all their accessories and want me to be happy about it?!?!? It's no wonder they are going down. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the new Softail Deluxe in that 2-tone blue and white (it's sooooo sweet) but I'm not going to spend $2750 over the asking price for a motorcycle that they still make!!



It's off to the Victory dealer I go!!!
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

Point taken and yes they are in the price range. Since I don't have that report in front of me, is the honda ranked below buick? Also, to avoid sounding like whinning, I own and have owned several American, German and Japanese autos. Three years is a great bench-mark, talk to me about 150,000 miles with a century or lacrosse.

And since you mentioned it, Who would want a buick century;)
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

I hear they even have UNIONS!!!!!!!!! how low can they get, selling bikes that are fun to ride and paying their workers decent wages and bennies........it's downright un-American
 

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Ok, now we'll hear the nonsense about HD being an American icon, we should support the last American bike manufacturer, trouble at HD means trouble for America, and all the rest of that crap. The truth is -- HD's are less "American" than a Victory, no more American than your average Honda, and doesn't represent anything other than some people's need to be part of the pack. If someone wants a v-twin cruiser there is no good reason to buy a HD other than wanting to be part of that "lifestyle". Other v-twins are better technology, better style, and way better cost-wise. Let's see, if I want a big inch v-twin with power and torque I can pay 2-3K over list to a dealer that treets me like dirt, get a bike that wasn't worth the list price to begin with, spend another 2-5K for upgrades to make the engine do what it should do anyway, and end up with a 25-30K "icon", or I could just go buy a Victory, Yamaha, or any of the others and get the whole package for half the price. Geez, did anybody reallly think HD could keep doing what they've been doing forever? They won't go out of business but I'll bet that HD a few years from now will operate a little different than it does now.
 

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Re: Do you hate HD?

Did you get that new Dyna? I remember you looking. I went down to check out the new Street Bob on sunday. They didn't have one but the Ulysess looks neat and the bags are really nice.
 

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stuff like that is a dealership issue. Around the Puget Sound area, most dealers are at MSRP, in fact on the '05 Dyna I just bought the dealership ate the freight and set-up because it was the last carb. '05 they had. I can live without "the attitude" myself, but for the most part they're a decent bunch of people with a genuine love for their product who like to ride, to me that's better than some 20 year old tryng to sell me a bike he doesn't know anything about.



I figure no ones making you buy anything, if it's not what you want then get something else
 
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