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If you pay the same price for a 5 year old Harley as you can get a new one for, you're a true moron. That's not value, just a lot of hype and supidity on the part of people buying used Harley's. Just like everything else the bottom will fall out. You can't sell 250,000 bikes a year and expect that they'll never depriciate. It's simple economics, soon now that demand is met a lot of people that bought Harleys because of TV shows, midlife crisis, etc will sell them and cause an overabundance in the used market driving prices down. It may take a few years, may not, but it will happen.
 

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The Toad
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What ever happened to riding just to ride, riding for fun and not caring what everyone thought.

Good question. I seldom ride with groups but when I do it's as ecletic a group as you can find. HD's, BMWs, UJMs.. anything. I just don't get this "us vs them" attitude. It used to be just an element of the HD guys and some of the BMW guys but now many of the squids are at least as bad.
 

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The Toad
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I'd be satisfied just to go back to the $2000 for a basketcase era. You need at least three Shovels just to be sure that one is running.



Any day now!
 

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The Toad
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I hope you don't mean that the power rangers don't look equally stupid. How about the current supersport styling rage in Salt Lake? Armored m/c jacket, levis, tennis shoes and a freaking ballcap. I swear. Most of the guys I see on supersports around town are wearing ballcaps. When the weather warms up they'll change to T-shirts and flipflops again I'll bet.



And don't knock fringed jackets. I've still got a suede one around from the old Neil Young Era. It seems to have shrunk though.....
 

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The Toad
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Value is determined only by what someone is willing to pay for something. That is it's true value whether we like it or not. Used HDs are worth the same as new ones because enough idiots are willing to pay the price. Just because they are idiots doesn't change the fact that the bike still have that value.



After all, isn't the price of just about everything determined by the largest mass of consumer suckers available? Look what new trucks cost now. Sheesh. You can't even get a basic work truck any more. They're all loaded to the gills.



Like I said. I like HDs and I'm still waiting for the used market to collapse..... been waiting about 15 years now.... getting cobwebs.....
 

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I never like riding with other people. I like going where I want to and doing everything on my own terms. Sometimes I just get urge to ride somewhere I haven't been. I'll get up early and just head in one direction. Probably not a good thing as people don't know where I'm at and I don't have a cell phone (something else I refuse to own)
 

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I don't consider it an "us vs. them" scenario, Seruzawa-it just seems that there are two motorcycle paces: cruisers, and everything else. By the very nature of their design parameters cruisers bring about a more "relaxed" riding pace-or the other bikes are forced into a more agressive one (is the glass half empty, or half full?). Is it HD's fault for not producing motorcycles that are technologically au courrant, or is it the Big 4's fault for giving bikes that can only be truly "wrung out" on a track?



I don't typically ride much w/ cruisers anymore-but it has nothing to do with a superiour attitude...I just have different objectives when I ride than many of the cruisers do.



Bryan...and I still wave at everybody I see...
 

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Then you just don't "get it" or "it's a Harley thing, you wouldn't understand" Choose the cliche.. That's okay though, I never understood it either. I don't even think the Harley guys do. I fact I don't think anyone really even knows what "it" is. Perhaps it's just showing that you have a lot of money to spend or that you have control over your household and buying what you darn well please. Perhaps the world will never know. I think an oompa-loompa song about RUBS and Squids would be pretty funny :)
 

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I'm a Boomer (55) and I have a Sportster 883.

Believe me, I don't have anything to prove in life nor do I aspire to be anybody other than who I am...I just like to ride the darn thing. It's like having a boat in my garage. If there's someone to ride with, great. If not, I enjoy it just as much and, while shifting to my heart's content on back roads, I wave to any other motorcycles I see because I think only if you ride can you understand the joy of what I'm doing...feeling alive.
 

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Aren't they just doing what they always do?

I think they're just lying and using this as an excuse to lower production and reduce some costs. When demand turns out to be higher than expected--whoops! Looky looky, there isn't enough product to fill demand, right? Convenient enough. Value is high again.

I also believe the writing is on the wall. Eventually, all the people that fell in love with that tough guy outlaw biker image will die off or get too old to ride, and you'll be left with those whose first fell in love with sportbikes, not easy riders. However, that time could be a long ways off--when was 'easy rider' in theaters?
 

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Amen, that's what I'm talking about. I wish there were more like you. Just as I wish there were more sport enthusiasts and not squids. I run into some cool people from time to time, usually far,far from the city.
 

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I think they're just tired of their boring, hum-drum, lives--and HD provides something different and romantic. It gives them a means to get outside, commune with others in a festive setting, and show off their chromed out possessions, all at the same time. Nothing wrong with that at all.



God forbid they take up hiking or something physical. You can park your big fat arse on the cushy seat and get around outside and the only sweat you'll break is because of the black leather vest and chaps absorbing the summer heat. It's kinda like a motorized wheelchair that you can take on the freeway.



I like Buells, but since hearing rumors of Erik Buell using the V-rod motor in his next bike, I think I'll wait.





 

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Harley may be heading for a Cadillac moment that occures when the brand base enters the nursing home. Have you ever seen a young guy on a Harley? I wandered into a dealership to look at a Firebolt(they didn't have any) and what I found was a trailer trash boutique with gals sashaying around in retro fifties poor white trash gear. The only thing different was the price tags. Not for the poor! All representive of too much disposable income but with peak oil production here the bubble may burst and the Von Dutch/Harley/NASCAR wretched excess bubble will pop.

That's all I have to say.
 

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They do tend to shrink over time....



Actually I think it's good news for po'boys like us...When all the instant outlaws start unloading "that motorcycle you just had to have" for pennies on the dollar we'll be able to snatch up our choice of Lowriders or Super glides..........



.Pretty cool huh?
 

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Lets face the facts:



1. HD is not in a crisis

2. They need sporty models like they need a hole in the head

3. What they need is a big V-2, they are being whipped in the power and torque department

4. At least in Europe you pay less for an old HD than new

5. All the sold HDs will be on road forever, but that imminent 2nd hand glut will be balanced out by the brand/fashion oriented buyers - and we all know there are lots of them



- cruiz-euro

 
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