Helmet Laws and Tiered Licensing?
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Re: Let's give that nag another whack, shall we......
Now that is funny.. OK have you been moonlighting at Comedy Central for John Stewart? There is also the anti-union thing going on this site too..I read a great article yesterday how Toyota is confounding conventional wisdom about U.S. manufacturing by "It's offering union wages and good health insurance and selling the products its American workers make to Americans, profitably and more inexpensively than its U.S. competitors " read more
Now that is funny.. OK have you been moonlighting at Comedy Central for John Stewart? There is also the anti-union thing going on this site too..I read a great article yesterday how Toyota is confounding conventional wisdom about U.S. manufacturing by "It's offering union wages and good health insurance and selling the products its American workers make to Americans, profitably and more inexpensively than its U.S. competitors " read more
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That's what happens when you're a college dropout- you tend to over-simplify things for the common man. Mostly becase the insurance business sucks and it's hard to understand in the first place. I just break it down into good 'ol southern boy talk. Most get it. Some will never.
That's what "oversight" is for.
Do you think that a building is gonna get built because the workers want it to be? The foreman is going to have make sure it does. Same in government.
If your government is not working, join the political process and get it changed.
That's why the US professes to be a democracy isn't it? Or are you against that too?
Bottom line is that a large group of people acting together is always going to prevail against an individual trying to hold their own.
Do you think that a building is gonna get built because the workers want it to be? The foreman is going to have make sure it does. Same in government.
If your government is not working, join the political process and get it changed.
That's why the US professes to be a democracy isn't it? Or are you against that too?
Bottom line is that a large group of people acting together is always going to prevail against an individual trying to hold their own.
I got a SUBSTANTIAL discount for my own insurance by sending in my course certificate with my insurance application. The discount was at least twice what my course cost.
But then, I insure with a specialist motorcycle insurer ... maybe that's the difference?
But then, I insure with a specialist motorcycle insurer ... maybe that's the difference?
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Just a quick note: AMERICA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!!! It's a republic- founded in principal on "rule of law" and served by elected officals. But you knew that, didn't you?
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You have me confused with an anarchist. I'm only saying that blind trust in govt is very foolish.
For example the EPA was coming after some of my relatives for someone else's illegal dumping of tires on their property in Wyoming. The EPA didn't care who the criminal was they just wanted the money from the landowners for cleanup. Fortunately there was a Wyoming health inspector who wrote a letter to the Feds that got my relatives off the hook. The EPA was worried about West Nile mosquitos. So that worked out, but it could have been nasty seeing these elderly retirees forced out of their homes by the Feds.
The city I live in gave a developer a waiver to put a smaller culvert in my neighborhood than required by law. Some of the homes had their basements flood with sewage as a result. The city tried to force the homeowners to pay to fix the problem. It turned out that the pol who forced the waiver was a relative of the developer.
In other areas criminal collusions between private companies and regulatory agencies are well documented. The revolving door between DOD and Defense contractors is one. The revolving door between the FDA and drug companies is another.
There are good people and bad people in everything. Mostly good people really. But only a fool places blind trust in anything. We're too quick to jump to more legislation in this country. In dealing with the govt you are still relying on the personal ethics of the govt employees.
And to answer your question I have occasionally talked to my State Rep and Senator about various issues. No, I don't just sit on my @ss and complain. I troop up to the Statehouse and complain too!
For example the EPA was coming after some of my relatives for someone else's illegal dumping of tires on their property in Wyoming. The EPA didn't care who the criminal was they just wanted the money from the landowners for cleanup. Fortunately there was a Wyoming health inspector who wrote a letter to the Feds that got my relatives off the hook. The EPA was worried about West Nile mosquitos. So that worked out, but it could have been nasty seeing these elderly retirees forced out of their homes by the Feds.
The city I live in gave a developer a waiver to put a smaller culvert in my neighborhood than required by law. Some of the homes had their basements flood with sewage as a result. The city tried to force the homeowners to pay to fix the problem. It turned out that the pol who forced the waiver was a relative of the developer.
In other areas criminal collusions between private companies and regulatory agencies are well documented. The revolving door between DOD and Defense contractors is one. The revolving door between the FDA and drug companies is another.
There are good people and bad people in everything. Mostly good people really. But only a fool places blind trust in anything. We're too quick to jump to more legislation in this country. In dealing with the govt you are still relying on the personal ethics of the govt employees.
And to answer your question I have occasionally talked to my State Rep and Senator about various issues. No, I don't just sit on my @ss and complain. I troop up to the Statehouse and complain too!
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4,128 Posts
If "we the people" don't make our positions clear then our Imperial Federal Gov't will be glad to make our decisions for us.
Good to see some people actually take a stand on things and are willing to show the feds we care about what happens in our lives.
Good to see some people actually take a stand on things and are willing to show the feds we care about what happens in our lives.
That's a good clarification - I was certainly leaving the possibility open for you being anarchist, though not pigeonholing you there.
But also, if I may clarify my own position, I don't believe the government functions either particularly well or particularly ethically. Nor do I believe that people should place blind faith in it. People cultivate relationships with those in power and those relationships need to be continually scrutinized by you and I.
My take on it is simply that if the state that you're in is one that provides *effective* social, health and educational services, then training, helmets and tiered licences make wider economic and private fiscal sense. These places do exist, I've lived in them.
On the other hand, if you live in a state that doesn't provide *effective* services, then mandated training, helmets and tiered licences make not a jot of difference - they should be a matter of individual choice.
Whether you want the state you live in to be the latter or the former is your personal choice and a choice I'll back you to the hilt in having the freedom to make.
But also, if I may clarify my own position, I don't believe the government functions either particularly well or particularly ethically. Nor do I believe that people should place blind faith in it. People cultivate relationships with those in power and those relationships need to be continually scrutinized by you and I.
My take on it is simply that if the state that you're in is one that provides *effective* social, health and educational services, then training, helmets and tiered licences make wider economic and private fiscal sense. These places do exist, I've lived in them.
On the other hand, if you live in a state that doesn't provide *effective* services, then mandated training, helmets and tiered licences make not a jot of difference - they should be a matter of individual choice.
Whether you want the state you live in to be the latter or the former is your personal choice and a choice I'll back you to the hilt in having the freedom to make.
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Well said....
Fair point - it functions as a representative democracy, albeit distantly representative. The degree to which it functions well as such is (I agree) totally up to the average level of committed involvement of the populace.
Once the people on average reach the point of just expecting things to work, and not *making* them work, the whole thing is lost to those who would enslave you given half a chance.
I just happen to think that mandated helmets and tiered licencing don't constitute as serious a breech of freedom, compared to say having your property appropriated for a traffic infraction.
Once the people on average reach the point of just expecting things to work, and not *making* them work, the whole thing is lost to those who would enslave you given half a chance.
I just happen to think that mandated helmets and tiered licencing don't constitute as serious a breech of freedom, compared to say having your property appropriated for a traffic infraction.
I guess I would have to say no, I don't mind. I have what I consider to be acceptable insurance payments for our two bikes.
I'd love to see some sort of real data on what that sort of things actually costs. I'm willing to bet that the amount of money spent on helmetless accident victims pales significantly in comparison to money wasted on other stuff.
I guess another way to look at is this. I ride a Sprint 1050. Are there a bunch of people that spend their lives riding 250cc bikes that have to bear the a bit of the cost of me riding a 1050? I'm willing to bet that part of that guys insurance premium subsidizes my riding a much bigger / faster bike.
Somewhere along the line, we all are costing someone else money. I can certainly understand your position, but for me, I'd rather pay a bit higher insurance and still retain the freedom to how we want to ride.
I'd love to see some sort of real data on what that sort of things actually costs. I'm willing to bet that the amount of money spent on helmetless accident victims pales significantly in comparison to money wasted on other stuff.
I guess another way to look at is this. I ride a Sprint 1050. Are there a bunch of people that spend their lives riding 250cc bikes that have to bear the a bit of the cost of me riding a 1050? I'm willing to bet that part of that guys insurance premium subsidizes my riding a much bigger / faster bike.
Somewhere along the line, we all are costing someone else money. I can certainly understand your position, but for me, I'd rather pay a bit higher insurance and still retain the freedom to how we want to ride.
300,000+ a year die from being sedentary in the U.S...
That whole "cost to society" thing has been thoroughly debunked, repeatedly... almost every time it comes up on "helmet" posts. I can understand new MOrons having not seen it yet, but what I find curious are those that have been around here awhile making the same BS arguments for OTHERS to do something, over and over. I'm fighting for Freedom and Liberty, their cause is MY safety? Thanks, really, but mind your own business.
For the "newbies", yes, I almost always wear a full face helmet. I find them more comfortable at highway speeds.
Want to wear a helmet/gear? Go right ahead. No? That's fine too.
That whole "cost to society" thing has been thoroughly debunked, repeatedly... almost every time it comes up on "helmet" posts. I can understand new MOrons having not seen it yet, but what I find curious are those that have been around here awhile making the same BS arguments for OTHERS to do something, over and over. I'm fighting for Freedom and Liberty, their cause is MY safety? Thanks, really, but mind your own business.
For the "newbies", yes, I almost always wear a full face helmet. I find them more comfortable at highway speeds.
Want to wear a helmet/gear? Go right ahead. No? That's fine too.
Horse ... very ... dead. Must whip to make go ...
So, to cast the (undead) cat amongst the (flu-ridden) pigeons, my take on it is that the US Fed. should have nix to do with helmets & tiered licensing, even though I'm all for it locally.
Decide on a state by state basis, that's what states are for - the fed. can legislate things like foreign policy and minimum wage and pay for things like stealth fighters and science research.
Man, I think I can balance on this fence standing up straight even ...
So, to cast the (undead) cat amongst the (flu-ridden) pigeons, my take on it is that the US Fed. should have nix to do with helmets & tiered licensing, even though I'm all for it locally.
Decide on a state by state basis, that's what states are for - the fed. can legislate things like foreign policy and minimum wage and pay for things like stealth fighters and science research.
Man, I think I can balance on this fence standing up straight even ...
On the contrary, helmet laws might reduce the carnage enough to prevent the government from banning motorcycles. I don't really foresee this happening, but the human race has shown time and time again that it doesn't learn and repeats the same stupid-ass mistakes over and over again. Vietnam and Iraq might be one large, lethal example. Gimme a helmet law anytime. The stupid motorcycling public has proved they can't act responsibly without it. But take away might right to ride, and I'm bustin' into the legislature with a bazooka and enough missiles to wipe out the whole damn city.
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