Cmon guys, you live in America. Give thanks. Most of the world is poor, hungry and live on 5 bucks a day. Here you are complaining about a stupid helmet law that inconveniences your right to some wind in your hair. Get over it. As an African-American, while they done it to us me without vaseline, for much of American history, I thank the Guvment for the right to vote. Wary of "big government" I think its our current guvment has has outspent most of the recent liberal governments, with its stupid war and pandering to large corporations. All I am saying is that, given the state of the world today, wearing helment ain't that bad.
Helmets are law again in Louisiana
Well, maybe here is a good one to start with. Because Illinois does not have a helmet law states can be gathered on deaths with helmets and death without helmets.
Scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at the motorcycle death stats (three links at the top of the page will give you numbers for 2000, 2001, and 2002):
Illinois helmet and non helmet motorcycle deaths 2000-2002
I don't know what happened in 2002 but riders seemed to learn something. An anomaly maybe? Kind of strange.
I for one can tell you I am in the overwhelming minority in this state wearing a helmet. I'm not even going to get in to the number of people I see riding in flip-flops. I just think about my little piggys getting caught in the spokes, having 500 lbs of motorcycle fall and slide on them, or slipping off the peg and grinding on the asphalt and I literally cringe.
Scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at the motorcycle death stats (three links at the top of the page will give you numbers for 2000, 2001, and 2002):
Illinois helmet and non helmet motorcycle deaths 2000-2002
I don't know what happened in 2002 but riders seemed to learn something. An anomaly maybe? Kind of strange.
I for one can tell you I am in the overwhelming minority in this state wearing a helmet. I'm not even going to get in to the number of people I see riding in flip-flops. I just think about my little piggys getting caught in the spokes, having 500 lbs of motorcycle fall and slide on them, or slipping off the peg and grinding on the asphalt and I literally cringe.
221 - 236 of 236 Posts
Well said. You put this whole argument in its proper perspective.
Swift Boat Idiot
I thought you said you were an idiot 20% of the time (meaning you go topless 20% of the time)? I am sure most thought your were an idiot most of the time. Now I think we are all convinced that you are just an idiot.
I thought you said you were an idiot 20% of the time (meaning you go topless 20% of the time)? I am sure most thought your were an idiot most of the time. Now I think we are all convinced that you are just an idiot.
Well said. Excellent Points about the costs.
Re: There you go.....
Fact 1. The fact there were only a few hundred deaths vs thousands of riders is irrelevant. There are a few cancer deaths per millions of people. Does that mean that if cancer deaths increased 125% in one year because a drug was not used is the statistic not significant. Hell no.
Fact 2. The death rate increased ~125% in this case (from 35 to 79) that is significant. The fact that were only a few deaths vs. the number of riders is not important.
Fact 3. The number of riders could of increased is important but assume that it increased 5% a year. The death rate still would of increased significantly. It's the delta that is important not the population size vs the number of deaths.
Fact 4. Comparing only two years is probably not conclusive but I would not as MO does consider it statistically insignificant.
Fact 1. The fact there were only a few hundred deaths vs thousands of riders is irrelevant. There are a few cancer deaths per millions of people. Does that mean that if cancer deaths increased 125% in one year because a drug was not used is the statistic not significant. Hell no.
Fact 2. The death rate increased ~125% in this case (from 35 to 79) that is significant. The fact that were only a few deaths vs. the number of riders is not important.
Fact 3. The number of riders could of increased is important but assume that it increased 5% a year. The death rate still would of increased significantly. It's the delta that is important not the population size vs the number of deaths.
Fact 4. Comparing only two years is probably not conclusive but I would not as MO does consider it statistically insignificant.
Re: Who cares where anyone went to school?
Fact 1. The fact there were only a few hundred deaths vs thousands of riders is irrelevant. There are a few cancer deaths per millions of people. Does that mean that if cancer deaths increased 125% in one year because a drug was not used is the statistic not significant. Hell no.
Fact 2. The death rate increased ~125% in this case (from 35 to 79) that is significant. The fact that were only a few deaths vs. the number of riders is not important.
Fact 3. The number of riders could of increased is important but assume that it increased 5% a year. The death rate still would of increased significantly. It's the delta that is important not the population size vs the number of deaths.
Fact 4. Comparing only two years is probably not conclusive but I would not as MO does consider it statistically insignificant.
Fact 1. The fact there were only a few hundred deaths vs thousands of riders is irrelevant. There are a few cancer deaths per millions of people. Does that mean that if cancer deaths increased 125% in one year because a drug was not used is the statistic not significant. Hell no.
Fact 2. The death rate increased ~125% in this case (from 35 to 79) that is significant. The fact that were only a few deaths vs. the number of riders is not important.
Fact 3. The number of riders could of increased is important but assume that it increased 5% a year. The death rate still would of increased significantly. It's the delta that is important not the population size vs the number of deaths.
Fact 4. Comparing only two years is probably not conclusive but I would not as MO does consider it statistically insignificant.
Taking hot showers causes cancer so that's out. And if you've got a terminal disease why would you need health care in the first place?
Our friends in the insurance industry don't buld skyscrapers anymore. Now the buy "naming rights" to ball parks, such as "Large Insurance Company Field" in Seattle where the Mariners attempt to play, right next door to Paul Allen's "Large Phone Service Provider Field"
Our friends in the insurance industry don't buld skyscrapers anymore. Now the buy "naming rights" to ball parks, such as "Large Insurance Company Field" in Seattle where the Mariners attempt to play, right next door to Paul Allen's "Large Phone Service Provider Field"
seruzawa, kjam68 is apparently one of the frogs that was placed in the pan of slowly heating water. I never ceased to be amazed by the utter lack of perspicacity displayed by Boobus Americanus. VWW
Re: Super Bill for President
I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something I like about this guy. VWW
I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something I like about this guy. VWW
Re: Swift Boat Idiot
Looks like all 136 of Kook's personalities think you are an idiot. That's what he means by "we all".
Looks like all 136 of Kook's personalities think you are an idiot. That's what he means by "we all".
Re: Why don't you just bend over and spread 'em for the authorities?
Don't tell anyone, but I have agreed with every thing that you've said in this thread. VWW
Don't tell anyone, but I have agreed with every thing that you've said in this thread. VWW
I know how to solve it!! looking at NHTSA data
somebody posted the link. I have a quick "fit it right now to be seen as doing *something*" solution. (tongue in cheek mind)
Mandatory training for 40+ year olds.
The youngsters are steadily declining as a %age of dying - they either are getting a clue or insurance rates are "helping them" or more likely their parents are demanding they gear up, or their young reflexes and bodies withstand a lot more damage without kicking the bucket (probably a bit of the last 2).
The 20/30's folk haven't changed much to notice but probably have wives that have said "if you love me/the children you will get some training or quit riding that *thing*". Those that do ride either have the cash for the first time because they have a real job for once and want to try it while they've still got a decent supply of
testosterone still in the blood and consider themselves worthy of "confident grown man" status (20-29yr olds in particular).
I strongly suspect only graduated licensing or mandatory training programs (for example) will make a dent in the 20-39 crowd. Left alone we will always have those percentages in USA society and they will remain essentially constant as they have for 10 years already.
The big-time spike is in the 40+ group. I suspect if we carved into the DMV records we'd find that a whole ton of them (%age wise) are returning riders that back in 1980 were those 'kids' in the 29 on down sector which also happened to coincide rather nicely when motorcycles really took off in this country. (Table 5)
They have the financial ability now to buy a HD or similar "cruiser"-type that generally displaces over 1000cc. Have no formal training (they "learned" to ride 20 years ago on some 100cc dirt bike or smaller than CB350). And likely as not don't have kids at home so have no moral incentive to wear a helmet or otherwise reduce their risk exposure. They are likely "rewarding" themselves with a long-delayed toy and no damn gubmint is going to tell them how to live and they definately don't need some punk-ass telling them they don't know how to ride. They "remember" what it was like to crash on their bikes 20 years ago and hey, they lived through that well enough, why would anything be different now?
The big spike in injury/deaths is really nothing more than a huge surge in the 40+ age group buying bikes again. (Table 5)
And 40+ year old bodies don't exactly crash as well as 20 something's either.
I have a sneaky suspicion though that 50 years from now if we come back and tabulate the data, the big surge we're seeing will only be a short-lived thing and will disappear just as soon as the damn 60's generation (that has done so much damage to this country in so many ways) dies off already.
Not to say that as a %age of the riding population, the 40+ group won't be a little higher than it was observed to be in 1993 but it will return to baseline.
We need the crash data from 1980 though to make a better hypothesis, however. It's easy to jump to the conclusion that "It's displacement, stupid" since that also correlates rather nicely but I think that just happens to be a totally unrelated factor: 40+ yr olds buy bling-bling in the form of cruisers is all. What would be VERY interesting is if we actually had graduated licensing in this country and the 40+ crowd was FORCED to start on 250's. Then the displacement metric might be more useful.
Motorcycle Consumer News did a recent article on rider deaths (as opposed to injuries) vs SUV sales and they too had a very interesting correllation pattern that bears much closer study. I don't remember if they addressed rider age...
Correllation is not causation, however. "Pundits" and those who write "social-awareness" books etc. can't get that through their head.
Anyone want to take my bet that as soon as the 60's people are out of the rider population the %ages will go right back to say 1993's values even while raw numbers continue to drop due to ever smaller population size?
somebody posted the link. I have a quick "fit it right now to be seen as doing *something*" solution. (tongue in cheek mind)
Mandatory training for 40+ year olds.
The youngsters are steadily declining as a %age of dying - they either are getting a clue or insurance rates are "helping them" or more likely their parents are demanding they gear up, or their young reflexes and bodies withstand a lot more damage without kicking the bucket (probably a bit of the last 2).
The 20/30's folk haven't changed much to notice but probably have wives that have said "if you love me/the children you will get some training or quit riding that *thing*". Those that do ride either have the cash for the first time because they have a real job for once and want to try it while they've still got a decent supply of
testosterone still in the blood and consider themselves worthy of "confident grown man" status (20-29yr olds in particular).
I strongly suspect only graduated licensing or mandatory training programs (for example) will make a dent in the 20-39 crowd. Left alone we will always have those percentages in USA society and they will remain essentially constant as they have for 10 years already.
The big-time spike is in the 40+ group. I suspect if we carved into the DMV records we'd find that a whole ton of them (%age wise) are returning riders that back in 1980 were those 'kids' in the 29 on down sector which also happened to coincide rather nicely when motorcycles really took off in this country. (Table 5)
They have the financial ability now to buy a HD or similar "cruiser"-type that generally displaces over 1000cc. Have no formal training (they "learned" to ride 20 years ago on some 100cc dirt bike or smaller than CB350). And likely as not don't have kids at home so have no moral incentive to wear a helmet or otherwise reduce their risk exposure. They are likely "rewarding" themselves with a long-delayed toy and no damn gubmint is going to tell them how to live and they definately don't need some punk-ass telling them they don't know how to ride. They "remember" what it was like to crash on their bikes 20 years ago and hey, they lived through that well enough, why would anything be different now?
The big spike in injury/deaths is really nothing more than a huge surge in the 40+ age group buying bikes again. (Table 5)
And 40+ year old bodies don't exactly crash as well as 20 something's either.
I have a sneaky suspicion though that 50 years from now if we come back and tabulate the data, the big surge we're seeing will only be a short-lived thing and will disappear just as soon as the damn 60's generation (that has done so much damage to this country in so many ways) dies off already.
Not to say that as a %age of the riding population, the 40+ group won't be a little higher than it was observed to be in 1993 but it will return to baseline.
We need the crash data from 1980 though to make a better hypothesis, however. It's easy to jump to the conclusion that "It's displacement, stupid" since that also correlates rather nicely but I think that just happens to be a totally unrelated factor: 40+ yr olds buy bling-bling in the form of cruisers is all. What would be VERY interesting is if we actually had graduated licensing in this country and the 40+ crowd was FORCED to start on 250's. Then the displacement metric might be more useful.
Motorcycle Consumer News did a recent article on rider deaths (as opposed to injuries) vs SUV sales and they too had a very interesting correllation pattern that bears much closer study. I don't remember if they addressed rider age...
Correllation is not causation, however. "Pundits" and those who write "social-awareness" books etc. can't get that through their head.
Anyone want to take my bet that as soon as the 60's people are out of the rider population the %ages will go right back to say 1993's values even while raw numbers continue to drop due to ever smaller population size?
Re: Swift Boat Idiot
Good point.
Good point.
Getting your facts from SwiftBoat.com is a problem.
"Yet they approve drugs which are proven to be utterly without benefit, nay harmful, like Prozac and Paxil. " Bull Shyt. Many people can't function without these drugs. Where do you get your facts. SwiftBoat.com. Prozac in particular is a miracle drug my cousin is a Shrink (MD). You and the other grumpy old mean (longbully, msCruddy, and BuzBoy) should probably be on it.
"Yet they approve drugs which are proven to be utterly without benefit, nay harmful, like Prozac and Paxil. " Bull Shyt. Many people can't function without these drugs. Where do you get your facts. SwiftBoat.com. Prozac in particular is a miracle drug my cousin is a Shrink (MD). You and the other grumpy old mean (longbully, msCruddy, and BuzBoy) should probably be on it.
Re: Getting your facts from SwiftBoat.com is a problem.
Psychiatrists are murderers.
Psychiatrists are murderers.
First, I do like boobs so keep it coming. My only point is that Fascism is an overused/ mistated term. The following conditions need to exist for the term to be applicable:
Fascism and Nazism as ideologies involve, to varying degrees, some of the following hallmarks:
1. Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission.
2. Aggressive militarism even to the extent of glorifying war as good for the national or individual spirit.
3. Use of violence or threats of violence to impose views on others
4. Authoritarian reliance on a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to an electorate.
5. Cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
6. Reaction against the values of Modernism, usually with emotional attacks against both liberalism and communism.
7. Exhortations for the homogeneous masses of common folk (Volkish in German, Populist in the U.S.) to join voluntarily in a heroic mission_often metaphysical and romanticized in character.
8. Dehumanization and scapegoating of the enemy seeing the enemy as an inferior or subhuman force, perhaps involved in a conspiracy that justifies eradicating them.
9. The self image of being a superior form of social organization beyond socialism, capitalism and democracy.
10. Elements of national socialist ideological roots, for example, ostensible support for the industrial working class or farmers; but ultimately, the forging of an alliance with an elite sector of society.
11. Abandonment of any consistent ideology in a drive for state power
12.State consolidation of the means of production
NLG Civil Liberties Committee
Sept. 27, 1992 by Chip Berlet
Although I agree with Seruzawa's points, to a degree, we continue to have a Constitution and electorate. Therefore, the state is tempered against major infractions. I would agree that during the Clinton administration the attack on the Branch Davidians bordered on a Fascist action. Were you frogs supposedly not in the gradually warming water moved to action, or were the Davidians too different to matter? (see point 8)
Fascism and Nazism as ideologies involve, to varying degrees, some of the following hallmarks:
1. Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission.
2. Aggressive militarism even to the extent of glorifying war as good for the national or individual spirit.
3. Use of violence or threats of violence to impose views on others
4. Authoritarian reliance on a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to an electorate.
5. Cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
6. Reaction against the values of Modernism, usually with emotional attacks against both liberalism and communism.
7. Exhortations for the homogeneous masses of common folk (Volkish in German, Populist in the U.S.) to join voluntarily in a heroic mission_often metaphysical and romanticized in character.
8. Dehumanization and scapegoating of the enemy seeing the enemy as an inferior or subhuman force, perhaps involved in a conspiracy that justifies eradicating them.
9. The self image of being a superior form of social organization beyond socialism, capitalism and democracy.
10. Elements of national socialist ideological roots, for example, ostensible support for the industrial working class or farmers; but ultimately, the forging of an alliance with an elite sector of society.
11. Abandonment of any consistent ideology in a drive for state power
12.State consolidation of the means of production
NLG Civil Liberties Committee
Sept. 27, 1992 by Chip Berlet
Although I agree with Seruzawa's points, to a degree, we continue to have a Constitution and electorate. Therefore, the state is tempered against major infractions. I would agree that during the Clinton administration the attack on the Branch Davidians bordered on a Fascist action. Were you frogs supposedly not in the gradually warming water moved to action, or were the Davidians too different to matter? (see point 8)
221 - 236 of 236 Posts
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