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Into the Dustbin?

8112 Views 30 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Kenneth_Moore, Dec 23, 2007

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · Dec 21, 2007

I've been reading quite a few m/c "history" journals lately, and something has come up that I wonder if anyone around here knows more about it (he looks pointedly at MSCUDDY).

Sometime in the 40s or 50s, it appears that "Dustbin" fairings were banned from motorcycle racing. If you're not familiar with them, "dustbin" fairings were very large, very rounded fairings that usually included a long, torpedo shaped nose section and then a quite full faring back around the rider's legs. It seems like it was a very big deal at the time, and had a major impact on racing.

Why did they ban those big, and IMHO, beautiful fairings? Was it a safety issue? Were they trying to make the race bikes more like the bikes they sold? Enquiring minds want to know!

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52944

· #2 · Dec 21, 2007

Kenneth_Moore said:
I've been reading quite a few m/c "history" journals lately, and something has come up that I wonder if anyone around here knows more about it (he looks pointedly at MSCUDDY).

Sometime in the 40s or 50s, it appears that "Dustbin" fairings were banned from motorcycle racing. If you're not familiar with them, "dustbin" fairings were very large, very rounded fairings that usually included a long, torpedo shaped nose section and then a quite full faring back around the rider's legs. It seems like it was a very big deal at the time, and had a major impact on racing.

Why did they ban those big, and IMHO, beautiful fairings? Was it a safety issue? Were they trying to make the race bikes more like the bikes they sold? Enquiring minds want to know!

Ahh it's a sad tail. They were banned for two reasons - to reduce speeds so the tracks would effectively be safer. Second which is the one you usually see is cross winds, they said it made the bikes too unsafe in cross winds.

While I'm sure it made the bikes somewhat less safe in cross winds I think it would only be a big deal at a track with a lot of wind. I race out at Willow Springs and there have been a few times it's been 40 mph winds in those conditions I am glad I haven't had one. But in less extreme conditions I think they'd be fine.

Sadly ever since they banned them in premier racing they're now banned in all the racing I know of. Because of that they're no long put on production bikes and aren't even offered as optional parts.

It's really a shame considering it can really boost high speed performance, it could really be a great help on a low hpr bike like a Ninja 250, or gs 500. It also GREATLY improves mpg. My father helped make one for a friend, mpg doubled on freeway. You can further increase it by changing your gearing to fit your new top speed and putting some good tail bodywork on it. You can look around online there are bikes with modern dustbins that will get 200, 300 mpg.

Maybe someday I'll make one for my 125, thought it's illegal for racing it could be fun for track days

Yes I think they've very pretty too, and I'd love to see what a modern production sprotbike OEM one could look like.

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sachiwilson

· #3 · Dec 21, 2007

Gluge said:
You can look around online there are bikes with modern dustbins that will get 200, 300 mpg.

Hogwash. It's not possible to improve fuel mileage by that much with a simple different fairing.

mscuddy

· #4 · Dec 21, 2007

Dustbins...

Here's an excerpt from a post on Roadracer X. Looks like the Brits did it so their old thumpers could still compete with the German & Italian bikes of the period that used them to great success. The FIM banned dustbin fairings in 1957 btw.

"Dustbin fairings were banned by the FIM in the years after WWII. It was a period of increasingly restrictive rules, as forced induction (i.e., turbo-charging and supercharging) was also banned. Nominally, the fairing rules were put down to ensure that motorcycles had adequate steering lock and were not imperiled by crosswinds. The truth is probably that the rules were British punishment for the Germans' starting the war and the Italians' role in it; the restrictions definitely extended the useful life of the British racing singles that made up the bulk of 350 and 500cc grids."

cafe (racer) society (archive): Ode to the Dustbin Fairing:

52944

· #5 · Dec 21, 2007 (Edited)

sachiwilson said:
Hogwash. It's not possible to improve fuel mileage by that much with a simple different fairing.

no, I didn't say it was. Just a fairing can double it though.

You can do a lot with out a fairing though, a friend I know has a Blackbird that he's tuned up to get 80 mpg cruising.

It is quite possible to get 200 mph though with tuning, fairing, and gearing. Of course it probably depends some what on the bike.

http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/470MPG Main.html
That was from 1985, modern bikes are more efficient.

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 22, 2007

mscuddy said:
Here's an excerpt from a post on Roadracer X. Looks like the Brits did it so their old thumpers could still compete with the German & Italian bikes of the period that used them to great success. The FIM banned dustbin fairings in 1957 btw.

cafe (racer) society (archive): Ode to the Dustbin Fairing:

AHA! I suspect that Gluge's points are correct, but it's also quite believable that "politics" had a role to play. Just look how HD manipulated the AMA rules for decades over here. Thanks for the link Mr. Cuddy! (And, if you ever get the urge to write up some of those gorgeous streamliner bikes, I'd love to read it).

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 22, 2007 (Edited)

Now Hold On There, Pod'ner!

sachiwilson said:
Hogwash. It's not possible to improve fuel mileage by that much with a simple different fairing.

Don't be so hasty to cast aspersions, Madame Sachi! I read about the work Craig Vetter has done as well. Apparently some of the super-faired bikes are easily capable of the kind of mileage Gluge refers to, perhaps considerably more.

52944

· #8 · Dec 22, 2007

Yes one sad case of good ideas being banned from motorcycle racing.

At least they didn't F**K it up to the extent of F1.

I think what's most sad though isn't that they were banned in racing it's that when something is banned from racing it's almost never seen in production cars either. Take for example in F1 the first wings on cars were mounted directly to the axles so when you got down force it only pushed the wells down on the ground, it didn't compress your suspension. That would be great for road going sports cars, but none are made like that it's like everyone forgot. Same with dustbin fairings.

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 22, 2007

Here's an interesting quote from Mr. Cuddy's link. The author is promoting a return of the extreme fairings to modern racing:

"Second, fully faired bikes would be a modern sponsor’s dream. Seamless rolling billboards with lots of logo space would make it easier for MotoGP teams to defray costs by attracting outside money."

Money oughta do it!

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 22, 2007

Gluge said:
it's like everyone forgot. Same with dustbin fairings.

Not quite everyone! Did you see in Mr. Cuddy's link that a company called Airtec is making the fairings?!?! Wouldn't THAT be cool...make it a B2 stealth configuration and line it with RAM (radar absorbing material) and now you're getting somewhere...

52944

· #11 · Dec 22, 2007

Kenneth_Moore said:
Not quite everyone! Did you see in Mr. Cuddy's link that a company called Airtec is making the fairings?!?! Wouldn't THAT be cool...make it a B2 stealth configuration and line it with RAM (radar absorbing material) and now you're getting somewhere...

Yea I think Airtech will make you one too if you ask. They're not that hard to make yourself either. One thing I wonder though if I make one for my 125 I'm not sure about cooling to the radiator and how well that would work or what to do exactly about it... Take a bit of testing. It has a top speed of 145 mph now though, I'm thinking with a dustbin I might be able to do 160 on it, might take a new tail also..

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · #12 · Dec 22, 2007

Gluge said:
Yea I think Airtech will make you one too if you ask. ..

Nah, that's just idle chatter on my part...besides, making the DL Urban Assault Cycle attractive would be scary!

However, there is this nice little farkel out there:

http://www.nabble.com/JVM-fairing-lowers,-$575-limited-time-price.-td14441801.html

Maybe when the year end bonus rolls in, I'll roll some of it back out again!

52944

· #13 · Dec 22, 2007

Kenneth_Moore said:
Nah, that's just idle chatter on my part...besides, making the DL Urban Assault Cycle attractive would be scary!

However, there is this nice little farkel out there:

http://www.nabble.com/JVM-fairing-lowers,-$575-limited-time-price.-td14441801.html

Maybe when the year end bonus rolls in, I'll roll some of it back out again!

No, check this airtech dustbin out - GILERA ROAD RACE DUSTBIN FAIRING, SEAT, FENDER

sarnali2

· #14 · Dec 22, 2007

sachiwilson said:
Hogwash. It's not possible to improve fuel mileage by that much with a simple different fairing.

Ha HAAAAAAAA....here we go again...

Sachi Darlin' I get 253 mpg on my Dyna after taking Gluges advice...In fact I get such good gas mileage I have to drain the tank every few days to keep it from back filling........

52944

· #15 · Dec 22, 2007

sarnali2 said:
Ha HAAAAAAAA....here we go again...

Sachi Darlin' I get 253 mpg on my Dyna after taking Gluges advice...In fact I get such good gas mileage I have to drain the tank every few days to keep it from back filling........

Before anyone jumps on me about my claim that adding a dustbin fairing will double your highway mpg, please consider how many people you know who have tried a dustbin fairing.

I would be interested to hear any stories people have of actually trying one. I have one story, it's not much I know but it's something.

That and I'm begrudgingly endorsed by Longride.

The_AirHawk

· #16 · Dec 22, 2007 (Edited)

Note the convex "scoop" on the side of it for cooling (you mentioned this problem in an earlier post). Also note, the bike to which it's affixed appears to be an aircooled single, probably making sub-30hp, even in vintage race-tune. Not so much heat to dissipate as a more modern engine of the same displacement, but more power.

The more smoothly you make the air flow-around the bike, the harder it will be to make it flow through your cooling means. I've read before that this was a major problem that plagued virtually all the dustbin bikes, and was never satisfactorily solved before their demise.

It was a compromise of the first order: the bikes could be made to go much faster, but would overheat immediately. Divert enough air to cool the bike, you lose-out on the full potential, maybe cost yourself a race (and a championship). And what was "optimum" could change day to day, or even throughout a given race.

Sum-total of my knowlege of the Dustbin bikes, right there. And it's been probably a decade since I read anything on them, so some bits may be mis-remembered. But the gist of what I read (that caught my interest enough to remember) is there.

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52944

· #17 · Dec 22, 2007

The_AirHawk said:
Note the convex "scoop" on the side of it for cooling (you mentioned this problem in an earlier post). Also note, the bike to which it's affixed appears to be an aircooled single, probably making sub-30hp, even in vintage race-tune. Not so much heat to dissipate as a more modern engine of the same displacement, but more power.

The more smoothly you make the air flow-around the bike, the harder it will be to make it flow through your cooling means. I've read before that this was a major problem that plagued virtually all the dustbin bikes, and was never satisfactorily solved before their demise.

It was a compromise of the first order: the bikes could be made to go much faster, but would overheat immediately. Divert enough air to cool the bike, you lose-out on the full potential, maybe cost yourself a race (and a championship). And what was "optimum" could change day to day, or even throughout a given race.

Sum-total of my knowlege of the Dustbin bikes, right there. And it's been probably a decade since I read anything on them, so some bits may be mis-remembered. But the gist of what I read (that caught my interest enough to remember) is there.

Your forgetting air cooled bikes take a lot more air flow to cool properly though. They weren't all air cooled then. Take the MotoGuzzi V8, no over heating problems with it and it had quite a small scoop (I've seen it in person, so pretty)

My 125 even in 110 degree willow springs summers takes very little cooling, often I have to tape half of the little radiator off just to keep it warm enough.

You can also arrainge the flow of air so it goes through a radiator then back out cleanly which helps some. In the bike my friend put a dust bin on though he just left the large opening where the front wheel comes out and that's been enough to keep it cool. Of course he's far from racing it.

The_AirHawk

· #18 · Dec 22, 2007

Gluge said:
Your forgetting air cooled bikes take a lot more air flow to cool properly though. They weren't all air cooled then. Take the MotoGuzzi V8, no over heating problems with it and it had quite a small scoop (I've seen it in person, so pretty)

My 125 even in 110 degree willow springs summers takes very little cooling, often I have to tape half of the little radiator off just to keep it warm enough.

You can also arrainge the flow of air so it goes through a radiator then back out cleanly which helps some. In the bike my friend put a dust bin on though he just left the large opening where the front wheel comes out and that's been enough to keep it cool. Of course he's far from racing it.

Nah, I'm not forgettin' all that. I've seen lots of non-stock "strategic ducting" on various bikes. If you direct it, the cooling air is more effective than just "ambient radiation" of the heat. Have you ever been through the Barber Museum? If not, you OWE it to yourself to take the tour, look over some of that vintage iron closely. It's amazing (to me) some of the clever ways they came-up with to solve problems (like overheating, as just one example) back in the early days of racing - things that are a non-issue today (either due to better metallurgy, plastics, manufacturing practices, etc.)

When I was younger, I used to think that racers and engineers back then were somehow "dumber" than today. As I've learned since maturing a bit; not even close. Makes one think: how will they view racers of TODAY in another 60-80 years?

Kenneth_Moore

Discussion Starter · #19 · Dec 22, 2007

sarnali2 said:
Ha HAAAAAAAA....here we go again...

Sachi Darlin' I get 253 mpg on my Dyna after taking Gluges advice...In fact I get such good gas mileage I have to drain the tank every few days to keep it from back filling........

Snarli, Gluge is NOT making this up! Go look at that Vetter site, those bikes were doing 400 mpg in contest trim. It hardly seems a stretch of the imagination to me that a well tuned "street" dustbin bike could do 200 mpg. Hell, I could almost double the mileage on the Conster if I tried by handling the throttle right!

sachiwilson

· #20 · Dec 22, 2007

Ok, I did. the bikes were in "contest trim" he says. They use a 125-200 cc engine and they are geared so high as to be unusable for anything except for mileage contests.

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