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Re: This should be no big surprise to anyone

Hmm, my Valkyrie Interstate draws crowds everywhere I park it...and its flat six motor sounds like a Porsche. It didn't sell too well because the market it was aimed at wasn't interested in buying a bike, but buying a brand...Anyway, beauty is in the eye...
 

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Sylvania HD a good dealership? How do you define a bad one?

you must have a long beard or a bad-ass face (I'm just kidding)...I went in there after work and Sylvania HD wouldn't even talk to me. They acted like I was a dumbass and just in their to waste their time....not like they were busy, I was the only one in there. I probably didn't look old enough/rich enough/stupid enough or something. Went in there twice just to be sure. Same story both times....F-that!...I personally think its a disease or something that plagues HD dealers (and other motorcycle dealers too) like this. Why should they be friendly if their going to sell everything they have anyway? If they don't have any bikes to sell you RIGHT NOW why should they "waste their time"!?! PISS POOR ATTITUDE GUYS! Shows the TRUE character of a brand/dealer/dealership -- some places just don't care unless their going to make money TODAY! Total ! What happened to customer service? Bottom line: They act like they don't care, so I didn't care to give them my money. Sad thing is, if they would have acted like they remotely gave any sort of a about my presence in thier dealership, then they just might have sold a bike that day! Just my $.02.

Hopefully if demand goes down, HD doesn't find themselves in trouble from allowing overpopulation of their dealerships. Can you say spreading yourself too thin? Allowing these poor dealerships to represent them is the biggest mistake in my opinion--the corporation should be kicking some of thier asses!
 

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Re: Is Harley

No, no no!

All of the bad things that could possibly ever happen to the motor company are beginning to happen right now! ...and it's all because the sales manager at my local dealership wouldn't let me sit on a Fat Boy.

Serves them right!

;-}
 

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Re: Is Harley

If I had to explain it......

Learn how to interpret financial statements and you will quickly learn that they are making gobs of money and they will likely not die off.

For an out of date POS they sure sell well and at much higher margins than other brands. Maybe some other marques should reconsider what they are selling?
 

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Re: This should be no big surprise to anyone

Buying the bike based on measureable qualities. This, I believe, will be more of an issue in the future. Harley, as I see it, have two major sources of customers - the old guard and the boomers with cash. I - at least around here - don't see many folks under 35ish riding hogs. Everyone's on 'adventure tourers' and sport/sportstandard machines. These guys (kinda like me) may be interested in a 'less than sporty' bike sometime but, having started on 100hp 600's, a 42hp 1340cc evo (just had to make that quote... actual figures from a friends Roadking) or whopping 60ish hp for a tc will not cut it. Bikes in the next ten years will have to be powerful, handle reasonably well and stop. As well, I don't see the same brand loyalty around the 'younger set' so, if this is in fact true, why spend 10K more on a HOG when I can get the same thing from my local Kawahonyamazuki shop...or, like another poster said... pick one up in the classified as there are PAGES of the late model beasts sitting about there.

Just my wholy undeducated two bits
 

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Re: Is Harley

The excess inventory are the bikes that the dealers are gougin

on. This quote from the story sez it all:

"those selling at sticker price continue to have waiting lists of about

one year on most models, while dealers selling at a premium to sticker had inventory on the

floor. Perhaps aggressive pricing by some dealers could at least in part explain the increase in

finished goods."

The dealer is the one who makes the $$ over the MSRP. Harley is still selling every bike that leaves their plant.
 

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Re: This should be no big surprise to anyone

Exactly. In case you didn't pick up on it I *like* the Valkyrie but sorry, to me it does look a bit ungainly if not porky and sounds more like a Subaru than a TurboCarrera to me. I could live with those things if I were in the market for such a beast. I don't need or want a bike that big right now but might when I retire. Too bad the Valky won't be around then, but the Hawgs probably will be. Yes beauty is in the eye!
 

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Re: Is Harley

i thought that i had heard that harley built a new plant and that they are and have been meeting demand on the sportsters and smaller bikes, and that they would be meeting demand on the big bikes within a year or 2. i don't know if that is true, but i do know that you can get sportsters on the floor here in minnesota, and even some big bikes too (if you are lucky) without being on a waiting list. and depending upon which dealer you go to, you can get a big bike in less than a year.

personally, i'd spend my $18.000 on a duc or an f4s.

benson
 

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Man, I hope not!

The new Indians I've seen are the most tacky, overwrought honky cheese-barges I've ever seen! What a joke! It's kind of a shame, considering the actual company's long and illustrious history of competition that the new bikes are eseentially Harley clones made heavier and slower (!) with the addition of mounds of chrome, fenders, and what looks like 50 pounds of tassels and conchos.

I liked the Eller industries take on more performance- oriented bikes, including sportbikes. Maybe if the Hollister-based company goes boobie-up, they can have another shot.
 

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Re: Is Harley

Harley built a plant near Kansas City several years ago and all Sportsters have been assembled there for quite awhile now. The V-Rod is also made in KC. They have no brand-new plants, but do plan to increase production somewhat with the eventual goal that no dealer will have to wait more than a year to procure any particular model for a customer. An enviable position to be in.
 

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Unless I missed something glancing at the 10Q...

there was nothing "clearly" indicating there is a "real problem with unsold Buells." Indeed, the only Buell dealer I know was completely sold out of some 2001 models by June and would love to have more! And there's a reason he couldn't get them. There definitely *was* a problem with Buells (too many recalls and quality control problems) and the parent company forced them to slash production in an effort to improve that seems to have been very successful. THAT is the primary reason sales have dropped significantly. Though many consider them oddball novelties, Buells have a following almost as loyal as Harleys, just not in the huge numbers.
 

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Slow Buell sales drive up inventory

Read the 10Q.

Shipments are up for the Harley Davidson branded motorcycles, and down for the Buell branded bikes. Since dealer orders are what drives shipments, and inventory of finished goods is largely dependent on the difference between projected sales volume and the number of actual orders, it seems clear that slow Buell sales are mostly responsible for HD's higher inventory.

Could it be that Buell hasn't introduced anything new (except the B'Last) for years, and they have overestimated the loyalty of performance enthusiasts?
 

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LimeSqueezr: Did you not notice HD´s butt got waxed

>The VTX is one model, a muscle cruiser, which

>competes against only one Harley model

Yeah LimeSqueezr, but this HD´s "only one model" consists pretty much the entire H-D heavy lineup.

And as I mentioned, VTX does not beat the big HDs, but does that in an utterly devastating manner. Let me pull out my beloved dyno charts. Oh yes, here they are:

VTX has more torque *on the idle* than HD´s latest fuel injected 88 ci at any RPM. In fact VTX´s minimum point of torque curve surpasses handily the absolute maximum torque of the HD.

No flag waving, no moist eyed talk of heritage roots and grandpa´s ole sportster.

So the 100% fundamentalists will continue to buy the HD whatever the output is. But in the vast continuum of the pretty-much-HD-liking-people all the way to a-little-bit-HD-liking-people like myself this has been noted. If you want grunt its the VTX who dunnit. Totally devastating.

I think its about the time to check out if you could find some curve on the fender proving that VTX is a mere copy, LimeSqueezr.

cruiz-euro
 

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Neither, HDI made them cut production...

due to too many recalls/QC problems. 2001's are much better. Try to find a Buell dealer that has large numbers of them deeply discounted. You won't. Any *significant* increase in unsold inventory would have to involve Harley product, IAL Sportsters which have been produced night & day to ease supply disruption as the Kansas City plant shifts part of its resources over to the VRod. It would be doubtful if Buell could accomplish that all by themselves even if they did experience a slowdown in sales.
 

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do all the engines sound the same

lemon, I hope this will not become a habit but I have to contradict you here too.

Valk does not sound like Subaru. You may not have noticed it but the sound of the four and six cylinder engines is entirely different (difference seems not to be large enough for all, obviously)

cruiz-euro
 

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Re: Is Harley

Dus are great bikes, but they probably deserve the same criticism Harley gets from some people of being over-priced. But if it's too expensive you're too poor!

MN huh? Twin Cities HD (South) has to be the worst dealerships in the HD chain. My brother, foolishly, did not listen to me and bought a Fat Boy from those clowns. He had to repair their poor work after every scheduled service so eventutally he just started doing all the scheduled maintenance himself. I almost crapped my pants one year listening to one of their salesclowns spew a bunch of crap to a newbie. They could have sold this guy a Big Twin for over $40k by the time they got done with him.
 

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Re: Is Harley/ Potato!!!

I just RODE back from Sturgis. Man, you have never seen so many RUBS and trailer queens in your life! 5 Harley guys/gals held up several hundred bikes because of a rain shower. Slowed to 20 MPH! Harley knows they have the name & marketing. Fortunately for them there are thousands of posers out there lookin to have a 20K doodad. They don't care that my 26 year old CB 750K6 will tromp them in a 1/4 mile. Good lookin bikes but let's face it: Harleys are the Mr. Potato Heads of bikes. Take your TC 88 and stick on whatever forks, tires, frame etc. I might buy an Electraglide standard at MSRP cause it's about the closest Harley to being worth what you pay. But I'll test the VTX before and that'll spoil my HD dream. You wanna pose or ride! Fortunately I do know and ride with a number of motorcycle enthusiasts who do ride Hogs but see a bike as a personal choice not as a mandatory brand/fashion statement.

Joliet Jess
 
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