Is The V-Twin Falling From Favor?
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it was good while it lasted.
As the proud owner of a '02 RC51, I do have some sad feeling over the 'future' demise of the V Twin in roadracing.
It mirrors my street fights with the inline 4's. I get them in the turns and they get me in the straights..
It's just as well though, change is good.
I'll just keep hoping that Honda releases a road version of the RCV 211.
As for WSBK
I don't think that the series will last very long losing some popular drivers to MOTOGP.
As the proud owner of a '02 RC51, I do have some sad feeling over the 'future' demise of the V Twin in roadracing.
It mirrors my street fights with the inline 4's. I get them in the turns and they get me in the straights..
It's just as well though, change is good.
I'll just keep hoping that Honda releases a road version of the RCV 211.
As for WSBK
I don't think that the series will last very long losing some popular drivers to MOTOGP.
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780 Posts
This article makes no more sense then the focusless speculation (v-twin vs. other) that regularly fills MOland.
To begin with, let's seperate the "v" from the "twin". The V configuration fits a given number of cylinders into a narrower engine among other advantages but at the expense of airflow plumbing simplicity.
Increasing the number of cylinders increases the potential power for a given displacement simply because each cylinder is smaller; more precisely, the stroke is shorter and the valves weigh less. This allows higher RPM and lower piston speed for the same torque which means higher horsepower. But it costs more.
Look at the price/performance of the SV-1000 compared to inline-4 and v-4 competitors. The V-twin will be around for a long time, folk.
To begin with, let's seperate the "v" from the "twin". The V configuration fits a given number of cylinders into a narrower engine among other advantages but at the expense of airflow plumbing simplicity.
Increasing the number of cylinders increases the potential power for a given displacement simply because each cylinder is smaller; more precisely, the stroke is shorter and the valves weigh less. This allows higher RPM and lower piston speed for the same torque which means higher horsepower. But it costs more.
Look at the price/performance of the SV-1000 compared to inline-4 and v-4 competitors. The V-twin will be around for a long time, folk.
Perhaps in road racing, but on the street? For me the point of riding a road bike fast is doing it with smoothness and safety. This means a V Twin (or a boxer for that matter). Smooth lines come from smooth power bands and lots of midrange grunt to pull through long sweepers while you're hanging off the bike. For this, in-line 4's just don't deliver like a twin.
Sure in-line 4's are fast in the straights but who cares? On the street I am not racing anyone- I'm thinking about how well I'm connecting with the bike, my line, and how smoothly I am putting it all together. Again if I were worrying about weather or not I had selected the right gear or weather or not I was going to DOUBLE my horse power over the next 1000 rpm's (possibly leading to a crash) I would not be enjoying my ride in the mountains and canyons and would only be able to have fun "punching it down the straight away" (to me not that much fun, certainly not as much fun as I am having on my twins, and even worse for loosing my license).
Handling aside, V's allow a more narrow bike combined with a favorable center of gravity translating into a more responsive machine. Perfect for what I like to do when risking my license and life on the street. If my 999 is not fast enough down short straights where I routinely hit 120+mph before leaning into the next corner, I'll pick another sport. If Johnny Law clocks me at triple digit speeds this game is over for me and triple digits is the only place where an in-line 4 has anything on my Duck, or Boxer Cup for that matter. I love my 999's razor sharp handling, quick transitions through the S's, and immediate response to even the most minute inputs- incredibly visceral while committed to the long sweepers, and tight transitions of my local mountain roads.
Viva the twin, the king of road going power!
Sure in-line 4's are fast in the straights but who cares? On the street I am not racing anyone- I'm thinking about how well I'm connecting with the bike, my line, and how smoothly I am putting it all together. Again if I were worrying about weather or not I had selected the right gear or weather or not I was going to DOUBLE my horse power over the next 1000 rpm's (possibly leading to a crash) I would not be enjoying my ride in the mountains and canyons and would only be able to have fun "punching it down the straight away" (to me not that much fun, certainly not as much fun as I am having on my twins, and even worse for loosing my license).
Handling aside, V's allow a more narrow bike combined with a favorable center of gravity translating into a more responsive machine. Perfect for what I like to do when risking my license and life on the street. If my 999 is not fast enough down short straights where I routinely hit 120+mph before leaning into the next corner, I'll pick another sport. If Johnny Law clocks me at triple digit speeds this game is over for me and triple digits is the only place where an in-line 4 has anything on my Duck, or Boxer Cup for that matter. I love my 999's razor sharp handling, quick transitions through the S's, and immediate response to even the most minute inputs- incredibly visceral while committed to the long sweepers, and tight transitions of my local mountain roads.
Viva the twin, the king of road going power!
Perhaps in road racing, but on the street? For me the point of riding a road bike fast is doing it with smoothness and safety. This means a V Twin (or a boxer for that matter). Smooth lines come from smooth power bands and lots of midrange grunt to pull through long sweepers while you're hanging off the bike. For this, in-line 4's just don't deliver like a twin.
Sure in-line 4's are fast in the straights but who cares? On the street I am not racing anyone- I'm thinking about how well I'm connecting with the bike, my line, and how smoothly I am putting it all together. Again if I were worrying about whether or not I had selected the right gear or whether or not I was going to DOUBLE my horse power over the next 1000 rpm's (possibly leading to a crash) I would not be enjoying my ride in the mountains and canyons and would only be able to have fun "punching it down the straight away" (to me not that much fun, certainly not as much fun as I am having on my twins, and even worse for loosing my license).
Handling aside, V's allow a more narrow bike combined with a favorable center of gravity translating into a more responsive machine. Perfect for what I like to do when risking my license and life on the street. If my 999 is not fast enough down short straights where I routinely hit 120+mph before leaning into the next corner, I'll pick another sport. If Johnny Law clocks me at triple digit speeds this game is over for me and triple digits is the only place where an in-line 4 has anything on my Duck, or Boxer Cup for that matter. I love my 999's razor sharp handling, quick transitions through the S's, and immediate response to even the most minute inputs- incredibly visceral while committed to the long sweepers, and tight transitions of my local mountain roads.
Viva the twin, the king of road going power!
Sure in-line 4's are fast in the straights but who cares? On the street I am not racing anyone- I'm thinking about how well I'm connecting with the bike, my line, and how smoothly I am putting it all together. Again if I were worrying about whether or not I had selected the right gear or whether or not I was going to DOUBLE my horse power over the next 1000 rpm's (possibly leading to a crash) I would not be enjoying my ride in the mountains and canyons and would only be able to have fun "punching it down the straight away" (to me not that much fun, certainly not as much fun as I am having on my twins, and even worse for loosing my license).
Handling aside, V's allow a more narrow bike combined with a favorable center of gravity translating into a more responsive machine. Perfect for what I like to do when risking my license and life on the street. If my 999 is not fast enough down short straights where I routinely hit 120+mph before leaning into the next corner, I'll pick another sport. If Johnny Law clocks me at triple digit speeds this game is over for me and triple digits is the only place where an in-line 4 has anything on my Duck, or Boxer Cup for that matter. I love my 999's razor sharp handling, quick transitions through the S's, and immediate response to even the most minute inputs- incredibly visceral while committed to the long sweepers, and tight transitions of my local mountain roads.
Viva the twin, the king of road going power!
(1) How many free plugs for Marsee Products accessories do you have to carry in exchange for posting the link?
(2) There is more to the world than hard core racing machines. While the MD article makes some interesting points, I can't see all the clonemakers giving up immediately, especially not the Big 4 wannabes. And it wouldn't seem to be TOO wise to go short on Harley Davidson stock, either.
(3) But in the narrow context of racing, never mind what anybody with an ounce of brains would buy at the dealer, it's likely that the rules for tradeoff of weight vs. number of cylinders vs. displacement vs. things we haven't thought of yet will need a bit of fine tuning. The AMA version of superbike seemed to have things balanced a bit better (where did Suzuki come from??) than WSB, where the twins had a bit too much "extra".
(3) No matter what clever ideas the Italians and Kenny Roberts dream up, Honda will adapt the ideas with an improved version and be winning in a year or two. The manufacturer with the most money will win in the end. (Unless, that is, Honda gets the same kind of stubborn fixation they had on the V-4 for a while, but I doubt that they are so embarassed to be seen copying after that experience.)
(2) There is more to the world than hard core racing machines. While the MD article makes some interesting points, I can't see all the clonemakers giving up immediately, especially not the Big 4 wannabes. And it wouldn't seem to be TOO wise to go short on Harley Davidson stock, either.
(3) But in the narrow context of racing, never mind what anybody with an ounce of brains would buy at the dealer, it's likely that the rules for tradeoff of weight vs. number of cylinders vs. displacement vs. things we haven't thought of yet will need a bit of fine tuning. The AMA version of superbike seemed to have things balanced a bit better (where did Suzuki come from??) than WSB, where the twins had a bit too much "extra".
(3) No matter what clever ideas the Italians and Kenny Roberts dream up, Honda will adapt the ideas with an improved version and be winning in a year or two. The manufacturer with the most money will win in the end. (Unless, that is, Honda gets the same kind of stubborn fixation they had on the V-4 for a while, but I doubt that they are so embarassed to be seen copying after that experience.)
Re: Longride, are you serious?
I thought it was a topic to discuss, considering there was just a V-Twin test done. We link to many articles around the internet. You have a problem with that? Also, anyone can read the news articles. They can't comment. So, in the future, if you need to comment, get your facts straight and then talk. Paying people get to read the tests and comment on any thread, which is what I said above.
I thought it was a topic to discuss, considering there was just a V-Twin test done. We link to many articles around the internet. You have a problem with that? Also, anyone can read the news articles. They can't comment. So, in the future, if you need to comment, get your facts straight and then talk. Paying people get to read the tests and comment on any thread, which is what I said above.
Re: Longride, are you serious?
no - it's fine. As long as credit is given - besides just discovering it for yourself in the link or seeing the copyright at the bottom of the article in small print.
It's just a fine line to walk for a pay site is all.
It is a good commentary though..
no - it's fine. As long as credit is given - besides just discovering it for yourself in the link or seeing the copyright at the bottom of the article in small print.
It's just a fine line to walk for a pay site is all.
It is a good commentary though..
"No matter what clever ideas the Italians and Kenny Roberts dream up, Honda will adapt the ideas with an improved version and be winning in a year or two."
You aren't saying the Japanese would (GASP) COPY anything, would you?? KPaul will hate you for the rest of your life if you even imply this! It isn't possible!
You aren't saying the Japanese would (GASP) COPY anything, would you?? KPaul will hate you for the rest of your life if you even imply this! It isn't possible!
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3,415 Posts
OH MY GOD , why are you crying about $12.00 a year? I give more than that to "outdoorsman" at freeway offramps. looking at single incidents and trying to justify suscribing isn't accurate, Who else has an SV1000 road-test among others? if your so pissed Why do you keep posting?
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10,900 Posts
The oil trail and the parts help me find my way home!
I've only been able to put 150 miles on it due to parenting responsibilities. So, I still have my 3000 RPM break-in limit.
I want to do the air cleaner and touring muffs at the 1000 mile service. Have you done anything to yours performance-wise?
I've only been able to put 150 miles on it due to parenting responsibilities. So, I still have my 3000 RPM break-in limit.
I want to do the air cleaner and touring muffs at the 1000 mile service. Have you done anything to yours performance-wise?
Joined
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3,415 Posts
Now your repeating yourself,,, you hit the fun of fast street riding right on the head though, thats the best discription of brisk riding vs. all-out racing I've seen. That can apply to inline fours or triples as well, you just have to pick the right one.
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85 Posts
I think it's about time they took off the SuperBike Handicaps.
Gentlemen, choose your weapon and choose wisely. Now the inline fours are playing on an even playing field. Horsepower difference? Well, don't choose the twin, you doof!
For the street, I love the twins. I now have a vfr800..v4. Great bike, but I miss my v-twins.
I love the grunt and the beautiful sound.
Honda 650 NightHawk
Ducati 750 Paso
Ducati 900 SuperSport CR
Honda VTR1000
Honda VFR800
Pain_Seraphin
Gentlemen, choose your weapon and choose wisely. Now the inline fours are playing on an even playing field. Horsepower difference? Well, don't choose the twin, you doof!
For the street, I love the twins. I now have a vfr800..v4. Great bike, but I miss my v-twins.
I love the grunt and the beautiful sound.
Honda 650 NightHawk
Ducati 750 Paso
Ducati 900 SuperSport CR
Honda VTR1000
Honda VFR800
Pain_Seraphin
I installed a Power Commander and made a map that runs much better than stock (fuel injected). Other than that, I am going to wear it out a bit before I do any mods. I still run the stock air cleaner and mufflers! After that, Screaming Eagle or Zippers Performance is going to get a chunk of my cash. I figure around 100hp, 120 torque should be easy and reliable. Right now, I am rebuilding my old Superglide, so that is taking care of current spare cash and time, and I am also thinking of dropping a Muzzy 998 kit in the ZX9. Decisions, Decisions!
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