Ksquid's ''...long, painful death of the V-Twin sportbike.'' Continues...
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Ducati remains competitive because they have a great chassis, a capable professional team and a fantastic rider... but there is no doubt they are down 20-30 hp compared to the inline 4s
that said the Ducati twins make about the same torque and also make their peak torque at lower rpms. That's why so many experienced riders (as oppsed to one bike / low miles Japanese race replica owners) think twins make for a better street bike.
that said the Ducati twins make about the same torque and also make their peak torque at lower rpms. That's why so many experienced riders (as oppsed to one bike / low miles Japanese race replica owners) think twins make for a better street bike.
I am a rider who is not nearly capable of riding any super bike at the limit, but refering to a ducati 999r as slugish may be a little off, especially for a bike that although sporting thirty less hp than the competition manages to be competitive through low end acceleration. Saying vtwins have no legs up top may be a more acurate statement.
VTwins in WSB enjoy rules advantate over inline 4s
"Ducati and KTM are believed to be planning to introduce 1200cc twin-cylinder production Superbikes to take on the 1000cc fours in the showroom; with the Italian manufacturer - which has long dominated WSBK - arguing that the level of tuning now needed to make their 999 competitive on the race track is becoming too expensive. In MotoGP minimum weight levels vary depending on the number of cylinders, to help level the competition, but in WSBK the only advantage twins have is a greater level of allowed modifications."
See more at V-Twins may go to 1200cc to compete with inline 4s
"Ducati and KTM are believed to be planning to introduce 1200cc twin-cylinder production Superbikes to take on the 1000cc fours in the showroom; with the Italian manufacturer - which has long dominated WSBK - arguing that the level of tuning now needed to make their 999 competitive on the race track is becoming too expensive. In MotoGP minimum weight levels vary depending on the number of cylinders, to help level the competition, but in WSBK the only advantage twins have is a greater level of allowed modifications."
See more at V-Twins may go to 1200cc to compete with inline 4s
AMA level playing field V-Twins are falling way behind
In AMA where the rules are even...kpaul's thesis holds true.
Inline 4s dominate at Barber
If the V-Twins aren't dying how come Ducati uses a V-4 in MotoGP ? Aprilia abandoned its V-Twin WSB racing program and is now developing a V-4..
This is fun!
In AMA where the rules are even...kpaul's thesis holds true.
Inline 4s dominate at Barber
If the V-Twins aren't dying how come Ducati uses a V-4 in MotoGP ? Aprilia abandoned its V-Twin WSB racing program and is now developing a V-4..
This is fun!
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Re: AMA level playing field V-Twins are falling way behind
V-Twins are not dying. 1000cc V-Twins competing against 1000cc I-4s may be disappearing. Ducati uses a V-4 in MotoGP because the weight advantages given to a twin are not enough to overcome the lack of power and the amount of money required to overcome the power difference.
This equal displacement stuff seems a bit ridiculous to me, unless everyone wants to see the market comprised of only 4 cylinder street bikes. Separating the classes by number of cylinders doesn't do much for anyone, other than give the Japanese all the premiere classes, while leaving Ducati to its own class.
In order to really figure this thing out, and make it fair, one needs to sit back for a moment and consider what the purpose of the racing classes are. If Ducati and KTM (and any other manufacturer who chooses to develop a twin or triple) are given a small displacement advantage to afford them the opportunity to make similar power as the I-4s at a comparable cost, what is unfair? If they are making equal power at equal weight, haven't the rules created parity?
Would you rather see no V-Twins or triples so that everyone has the same displacement or would you rather see similar power and weight? I would rather see the latter.
V-Twins are not dying. 1000cc V-Twins competing against 1000cc I-4s may be disappearing. Ducati uses a V-4 in MotoGP because the weight advantages given to a twin are not enough to overcome the lack of power and the amount of money required to overcome the power difference.
This equal displacement stuff seems a bit ridiculous to me, unless everyone wants to see the market comprised of only 4 cylinder street bikes. Separating the classes by number of cylinders doesn't do much for anyone, other than give the Japanese all the premiere classes, while leaving Ducati to its own class.
In order to really figure this thing out, and make it fair, one needs to sit back for a moment and consider what the purpose of the racing classes are. If Ducati and KTM (and any other manufacturer who chooses to develop a twin or triple) are given a small displacement advantage to afford them the opportunity to make similar power as the I-4s at a comparable cost, what is unfair? If they are making equal power at equal weight, haven't the rules created parity?
Would you rather see no V-Twins or triples so that everyone has the same displacement or would you rather see similar power and weight? I would rather see the latter.
"That's why so many experienced riders (as oppsed to one bike / low miles Japanese race replica owners) think twins make for a better street bike."
Actually the real reason twins make for a better street bike is that they sound so much better than inline 4s
Actually the real reason twins make for a better street bike is that they sound so much better than inline 4s
Re: AMA level playing field V-Twins are falling way behind
"In AMA where the rules are even...kpaul's thesis holds true."
Your thesis is a "long, slow death of the V-Twin sportbike", evidence of which you originally presented with Aprilia's announcement of a V-Four bike (with no concurrent announcement of the cessation of production of V-Twins.)
As there are currently more sporting V-Twin models being produced than there were fifteen years ago, and as many people consider V-Twins an ideal platform for sporty street riding due to their torquey power characteristics, and as the sole "evidence" for your "death of the V-Twin sportbike" statement is the dual non-sequiturs of (A) the forthcoming production by Aprilia of a bike that does not happen to be a V-Twin, and (B) racing results of one particular series which can be easily countered with racing results of another particular series, I'd say your thesis has as much factual support and internal consistency as the average Michael Moore "documentary."
"In AMA where the rules are even...kpaul's thesis holds true."
Your thesis is a "long, slow death of the V-Twin sportbike", evidence of which you originally presented with Aprilia's announcement of a V-Four bike (with no concurrent announcement of the cessation of production of V-Twins.)
As there are currently more sporting V-Twin models being produced than there were fifteen years ago, and as many people consider V-Twins an ideal platform for sporty street riding due to their torquey power characteristics, and as the sole "evidence" for your "death of the V-Twin sportbike" statement is the dual non-sequiturs of (A) the forthcoming production by Aprilia of a bike that does not happen to be a V-Twin, and (B) racing results of one particular series which can be easily countered with racing results of another particular series, I'd say your thesis has as much factual support and internal consistency as the average Michael Moore "documentary."
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10,900 Posts
Of course KP has been predicting the death of the V twin now for about ten years. I suppose if he sticks with it long enough he might be right 30 years from now.
It's like the seismologist who just predicted a 50/50 chance of a 7 or greater magnitude earthquake in the next 25 years.
Such bold predictions!
It's like the seismologist who just predicted a 50/50 chance of a 7 or greater magnitude earthquake in the next 25 years.
Such bold predictions!
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